AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

Would you not resent your DH over time? His world will open up professionally as he qualifies and yours will be very different. In 10 years’ time will he respect you the same as a SAHM as he would if you were working a surgeon? Will all the house and kid related stuff become “your job”. Don’t make a decision in the midst of a childcare crisis, your career and aspirations are important as well

He already doesn’t view you as a team - your career already seems expendable in a way his isn’t.

Medicine is changing now. It might be surgery is the last to see it but loads of my male trainees are working part time now (unheard of 10 years ago) to look after their kids. We are seeing some take shared parental leave. I cheer them on even if it makes life a bit harder for me!

Your DH does need to take some of this. They are his kids too. It is really easy to get LTFT now compared to what it used to be. You just apply and they can't turn you down whatever might be said. If he even just went down to 4 days a week it would help. With Covid wfh is a lot more accepted too. Admin can be done from home clinic letters etc.

Maybe if he's near the end of training then it makes sense for him to finish FT but he needs to negotiate the consultant job for less sessions. Maybe that means a less popular region or hospital, less prestigious. That's the sacrifice he can make so you don't sacrifice it all. I'm sure he would love it if you gave up work so he can do all the hours god sends and justify it but if that's not what you want why should you agree to it.

I haven't rtft but just wanted to say good luck, this sounds like a nightmare situation.

If I were you I'd take the 3 months off to make up your mind. In that time really live the life you would if you quit and see how it is. I changed career mid life after 4 years unexpectedly as a sahm (primary teacher to university lecturer via some additional education) and you don't loose your old skills, you just reapply them. A break/ change might take you in an interesting and unexpected direction.
Or you might have 3 months of being a sahm and it will drive you up the wall and you'll know surgery is for you.

If I was being operated on I would rather not have a surgeon in your position. I have never considered or knew that surgeons had this predicament. I find it alarming.

Seriously?

Do you think they're robots or only wheeled out on the occasions they are needed to operate?

They have to deal with all the shite any other person has to. Probably more so due to the responsibility.

Your kids will only grow up once.
You only get to see it once.
And it never comes back.
On MN I'd be surprised if 99.99% of posters dont say keep your career as that's how it seems to go.
But you'll miss being around for your kids.
And they need you more as teens, don't listen to anyone who says they don't. Being a teen these days is bloody hard.

Try to change everything but your career.

New nanny, cleaner, explore options of moving somewhere that makes you happier, tutor for the kids, take some leave now for some headspace, throw money at the problem for now to get you through. Try to make these work for you first.

My mum worked and yes we did miss out on time with her, but it was during secondary school not primary. I missed her being home after school so much. But then she was an amazing role model and I have her work ethic and she was able to pay for driving lessons, bought me a car and deposit for first flat and more. All because she kept working. Good luck OP.

Don’t quit. Speak to your dh and find a way of him compromising to make your family life work. It is totally unfair that you throw everything away and he sails through totally unscathed. You’d be putting yourself and your children in a vulnerable position being totally reliant on your marriage to work our for any future financial stability that you’ll need. Not just for the short term but for the next 10,20,30 years time when the children are adults and long gone.

It makes me so sad that all these women above are advocating that you chuck away everything that you have worked for so your dh can not make one sacrifice.

All this stuff about children are only young for a short period. Exactly!!! My kids are now in their teens and I’ve always worked full time. I’ve got an amazing bond with them and they suffer no ill effects from the fact that I didn’t pick them up every day from school. I’m a single mum and they thank me for the financial independence that I’ve maintained has meant that we have a good life even though the men in my life have proven to be assholes. A working mum does not damage children. Living in poverty does.

I think some settling in time could set your mind at rest about childcare

I would also caution against giving up.
I worked full time as a City lawyer when mine were small - I completely recognise what you are going through, you sound close to burn out, I had a breakdown. I quit and became a SAHM after my 2nd child. I thought that was what I wanted. Actually it was awful. After being in a highly stimulating and demanding environment the life of a SAHM is so dull it's painful. I love my kids but it just wasn't enough for me. I started to resent them and resent my husband's freedom to 'have it all'. I got a wonderful part time job in a non-City area of law and I love it. With the kids age 8 and 10 I went back full time (still in the non-City role).
You will find lots of people justifying their own decisions on here, particularly the long-term SAHMs who are insisting that it's about 'being there' for their children (even though the children will be out at school or with friends the vast, vast majority of the time).
My advice:

• Try to step back, not quit. I'm not sure of the options for medicine but there must be some. My friend went from cardiology to anaesthetics when she realised it wasn't compatible with family life. Did take years though.
• Try to take an immediate break. You are under too much pressure to make the correct decision now. There must be support for junior medics under pressure; take it. If you cannot then your DH will have to fall on his sword. You are not less than 50% of the adults with a career in your house.
• Remember COVID has made everything worse, for everyone. Don't decide your whole life on the basis of the last 6 months.
• Be wary that the grass is always greener. Having nothing in life except mumming can feel very, very limiting; particularly when you can see the alternative coming home everyday in the form of your DH.
• The pre-school years are the hardest. The demands are 24/7 and unrelenting. Get as much paid childcare as possible and a school with great wrap around offerings. It does start easing at 6-7.
• Remember quality time with your kids is better than quantity. No-one cares or remembers who heated the baked beans or washed the t-shirts or cleaned the floor. The vast majority of SAHM time is not singing rhymes and making collages. It's low-level domestic chores on repeat.
• Outsource as much of the mental and domestic load as you can; home PA, cleaner, send out the necessary ironing, learn to overlook ceases for everything else.
• Make sure your DH has 50% of the responsibility for managing the home and the kids - it sounds like the majority is falling to you and that pressure can be crushing without the pressure of medicine on top.
• Take time for you. A night off, coffee at your favourite place, wine with a friend or whatever. It's the best therapy.

Can you take a very short amount of time off to get a full time nanny settled in with you? Instead of paying for great holidays pay for daily and real help for you so that any time you have at home can be spent with the children rather than on family admin?

Get a good nanny? Use face time/skype for the initial interview. Check references.

@Naughtylittleflea
Thank you. I am glad someone said it. Retraining as a GP is not the easy option some posters suggest and not something to do unless you actively think you would love it. Yes, it is much more flexible and easier to work part time, but you’d be looking at 3 years training to qualify as a GP (or more like 5 years part time), still have to do hospital jobs first and the hours can be long. A day’s work is more like 7-7 and a “half day“ can be 7-4.

I don’t know what I think you should do OP. I do think it is a massive shame that there is still so much ingrained sexism in medicine that the options are quit or continue full time. I understand that although several posters have suggested it you can’t 1) become a surgeon when your children are older, 2) locum in surgery or 3) take 5 years out, but I don’t know what the answer is.

I am tempted to suggest you quit. Continuing as you are will mean you miss your children being young children which you may well regret. BUT as several others on here have pointed out, what about when they are teenagers/grown up and don’t want you around as much? And although I hate to be a voice of doom, what if you separated from your husband? would you regret being the one to have made the major sacrifice and given up the career you’ve dreamed of to be at home?

You could consider retraining in a more flexible specialty eg radiology, public health or in a medical educational role, or even quit medicine and work in the pharmaceutical industry but I think this has to be done as something you think you’ll actively like.

I am really sorry you’re in this position though and think it is so sad that in 2020 it’s still impossible to be able to balance being a surgeon and a being a mother.

My mum gave up her job when I was born. She has always regretted it, and always made us aware that she regretted it. I would rather she had worked and was happy. She would have been a better mother that way.

I also have no idea what my parents would have done had my dad got ill/died/lost his job. As it was, they were very lucky and nothing happened, but they had everything riding on him having a successful career.

I have a full time, senior, intense job, and children. I would hate hate hate a ‘little job in a shop’ while my DH kept the good job and security that comes with it. I spend a ton on childcare, life is stressful, but I think it’s worth it.

I wouldn't give up your job, I'd push ahead til you qualify and then see how you feel. Then there's no regrets for your career

I'm a consultant in a different specialty. I have been where you are and my solution was to leave hospital medicine for an easier career path. That's been a great decision.

Please don't quit entirely. That's so extreme. It's throwing everything away. I hate to see women do that.
The underlying reason is patriarchy. The expectation that you should be the one to give up. There are other solutions that are better than that

If you quit altogether now you know it will be very hard to ever go back
You will be dependent on DH and that is not a good thing. Many medical marriages break up.
Your kids will grow up really quick. This hard bit doesn't last forever. Mine are at secondary school now and I am looking to get back to full time now as they just don't need me so much.

Could you

• look at another specialty. It isn't so hard to change to something unpopular and some of your existing training can be counted. Radiology? Pathology? A&E (shifts yes but do shift and go home. Unpopular. Loads of staff grade available). These have loads of vacancies
• take a staff grade job
• locum for a while
• take parental leave whilst you consider your options
• if you wait for DH to get his consultant job then you can move to a different part of the country where you can get a house on his bigger income and you can apply to a different specialty training scheme there.

Don't see it as x years to consultant
It doesn't matter if your training takes longer. I enjoyed the registrar years a lot. Competent enough to contribute a lot but not ultimately responsible.

Whatever you do please do not give up entirely. Yes something needs to change but to give up your whole career is such a shame.

I hate this. Your not talking about your personal experience your telling OP that she will lose ‘invaluable’ time with her kids. It’s drenched in guilt tripping and I wish other women would stop doing it to women.

Yes I agree, I guess a lot use it to try and justify making the decision they made based upon what they want to do (which is absolutely great btw, what you want to do is important); but rather than just say that try and make a point about children suffering otherwise (they won't) and make it seem like a selfless act.

Do we say to men “give it up otherwise you will regret missing that time with your babies”? NO. Let’s stop putting guilt on women. We want our girls to have equality, we encourage them to get the A*s and study STEM, medicine and law yet Once they have babies we tell them to give it all up whilst reading boys continue to work. Is this fair?

Don’t give it up you have achieved what some people can only dream of. This years lots of kids couldn’t get into medicine because of the exam fiasco. Get yourself a full time nanny. Cleaner and gardener. Then enjoy those free days with your kids. As others have said I took mine to Bird world, farms, zoos etc when they were little and they honestly can’t even remember the trips to Disney land at all.

Feel for you OP, but I’d echo what others have said and keep your foot in if you can, instead of giving up on your career altogether.
@Decentsalnotime Judgemental much?

I wouldn't give up. You chose this career for a reason - it's not something you fall into, so don't let your passion and drive die because your husband won't compromise!

Also, your children get to see their mum being hardworking and dedicated and self sufficient and saving lives and achieving, and that might not mean anything to them at this age, but it will when they're older. Don't be kicking yourself in ~10 years when they're teenagers and hardly ever at home that you could be doing an interesting, varied, well paid career that you studied damn hard for and you gave it up.

You must have known when you chose surgery that it was going to be a slog, same with kids. This is that slog now - if you can push through, I think you'll be glad you did!

Speak to your husband and see if there's a compromise to be made - your career shouldn't be the only one affected by having children, that's not fair. If you can hire help in, do. If you can switch your child's school, do.

What do other surgeons do in your situation?

Can you take a career break from your training? Maybe until they are both settled into primary school . To keep in touch with work updates maybe do research at home ,until you can go back . Good luck, I feel for you .

@doctormumoftwo - I have PM’d you

Honestly? This sounds awful, but don’t take general advice from here (or make sure you really sieve out the people who have been in your position and really know what it’s like). Talk to other people who have actually been in your position. You need to sit down, with your DH, and have a warts and all discussion. There isn’t an easy answer to this: there are big pros and cons on either side. Think about finances (short and long term), think about how much being a surgeon means to you, think about what sort of life you have and and want to have for your kids. It’s a very personal decision.

MitziK

Am I the only person here who thinks it's crazy to chuck away a career with lifelong financial independence for a man that might not be around in ten years' time?
It's not doing it for the children, it's doing it so he doesn't have to trouble himself with them.
Stick it out. That way, you wont be dependent upon a good lawyer getting a fair maintenance arrangement if it goes tits up.

Totally agree with this.
I don't understand why childcare has become only your issue to deal with. Your husband was equally responsible for the children's creation. He has to be supportive of your career just as you have been of his. If that means him going part time in a profession where men rarely go part time, so be it. It seems like you have a very sexist marriage where career sacrifices and childcare can only be done by you.
If you do leave everything, it would be for your husband and not for your children. If you find a great nanny and your husband loses his sexist attitude, would you still want to give up your career?
I agree with many posters here that being a SAHM is not for everyone. I know I couldn't do it. I cannot bear the monotony of it and I know I would rather be a happy mum spending quality time with the DC while having financial independence so that if my marriage does break up, I can continue the life DC are used to while sorting out the legal and financial aspects of my divorce.
You are as brilliant as your husband is. There is no reason why you should enable him to develop his career and he shouldn't do the same. Such sexism infuriates me.