AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

I'm in a doctor family (but not one myself). I advise you absolutely do NOT give up. It's entirely possible to get through it and it takes years to get to consultant, I'd get to that and then reduce hours and have a lifestyle change. You could also look into more private work too. Is it possible to get more locum shifts for money?

Also, being a woman who gets to consultant will be aspirational for your kids.

You should also move house. Junior docs aren't paid pennies, especially surgical trainees, are you ST3/ST4? Move somewhere with better space. I think you're playing victim right now.

A friend's sister gave up Medicine because of her husband/children.
She was divorced a few years later, and bitterly regretted it.
She has another skill with which she earns her living now, but quite different to Medicine.

I would like to give a view from the other side: In the 80s DM had three months of maternity leave when she had me but took only 6 weeks because she wasn't cut out to stay at home with the baby. Took the 3 months when my brother was born two years later. She has always been at work from 9 to 6 (and once we were a bit older 8 to 8) and we were looked after by a full time nanny, but I can honestly say this has done us no harm. She is very successful in her field, and we teasingly call her work her first baby.

My DB and I are both well adjusted people, doing well in our chosen fields and are still very very close to our DM. I am so proud of everything she has achieved, and today when I am making decisions about my own DC or suffering from pangs of mom guilt I still seek her advice.

You know what's best for your family, but don't put yourself in a position where you would later resent your DC for what could have been.

Hi - could you come out of your training post and take locum work or a Trust Grade post and work part-time? Eventually you could consider going down the CESR route?

Or maybe go OOP(C) for up to two years? Talk to your ES and TPD - I think I'd probably take an Out of Programme for a year and see how I felt. You can locum while you're OOP - take shifts you want and then make a longer term decision after a year?

Good luck xxx

I think in this moment, it is really hard to take a decision. But you should bear in mind, that it will pass. It seems the world is going to end no matter what decision you take, be a mom or be a doctor, but if I can tell you one thing is that you don't need to choose only one; be a mom now and in 5 years from now, you comeback as doctor. Of course it will have a heavy price; returning from a 5 years break is never an easy thing to do. But definitely it is possible. I was having difficult with my groceries run and I think it is not the best analogy, but in the end I found this app for my iPhone, Your Best Option, it helped me to have better prices and choices, etc. What I am saying is everything always settles itself. Don't you worry so much. Be aware of the consequences, accept it, and work with it.

Is there some reason I am not seeing why your job is expendable but his is not? That you can consider completely giving up your career but he can't stall his temporarily? Please, enlighten me.

Not resent !! Present mum.

Sounds like you are going through a rough patch. Stick with it. And it doesn't matter how great DH's career, he needs to start taking a hit too. You cannot carry the whole load . I would resent the hell out of a man whose career skyrockets at my expense. It may look like a good idea now but I can imagine HATING him 5-10 years down the line when I'm a bored housewife and he's a succesful surgeon purely because his needs were prioritised over both our needs.

Look, if it helps, this is my background - I was raised by 2 parents with very intense jobs, out of the house 6 days a week. They sorted childcare between nurseries, school and relatives. Honestly, they were great parents, I have a great relationship with them. Yes, they missed things here and there which I was frustrated by at the time but 1) they set a great example for me and I really admire my mum, esp now I'm grown up and 2) they are really reaping the benefits now, financially and everything. So overall I would say stick with it.

I would quit the hamster wheel for being a more resent mum for a while. There are lots of careers you could go into down the line yes there will be some retraining - pharma research, counselling, paramedic. Or do OU degree in something completely different while not working.

For better finances seriously your DH can move to another NHS region when fully qualified. Same salary grade, housing so much cheaper.

Hi OP,

Everyone situation is different and I'm going to give you pros of cons of quitting your job to care for your children full time.

Personally, I do not think you should quit. I would highly consider doing part time (which your already doing now) and moving onto another speciality which is much less demanding. I would strongly consider this. I think you are very fortunate to be in a field where you can specialise in other areas. Please use this to your advantage.

I totally understand your point about not being there for your children, stressed out at home life. We have all been there. But I would not quit-no. I love my DC so much (I work part time) but I have my own needs, and my career is part of my identity- I'm not just a "mum". Also, children will need you throughout their years, it doesn't stop when they are teens. Do you not hear that a higher rate of teenagers are suffering form mental illness? Also considering exams, relationships, new found independence. I believe that teens, may not need you physically, but they require a LOT of emotional support.

My mum worked when I was younger and honest to God, I cannot even remember. However, I did find it a bit lonely at times where she would come back from work late (8pm). When I went to primary school, my mum didn't work. I liked having her here. But looking back...I wish she did something for herself. We had no money to do extra curricular activities, I know many people say this is not important yadada... but a young girl who was bullied, shy and didn't have much friends (just her annoying siblings for entertainment) I do believe this would have boost my confidence.

Also, our mother still donates our lives. We are all adults but she has this yearning need to want to control aspects of all our lives. I do believe that this has resulted from being a SAHM.

Please OP do not give up. Consider hiring a tutor for your son if he has reading needs. My son has delays in his reading, when I come back home in the evening, I we do some reading stuff together. You can even instruct your nanny to help you with this for your son.

You must do what feels right for you as a family.

That appears to be highly-gendered Mn code for 'sacrifice your own career for your husband's'.

*@Thereisnogreengrass

So why does the op have to consider her options and her husband doesn’t? Please explain

I get that in n ideal world both parents taking a hit on their careers is better, but there are some jobs where it simply would be career suicide to work PT (for men or women) and telling the OP to tell her husband to consider his options just isn’t helpful*

Yes, no, I wasn't saying that the OP's other half doesn't need to consider their options.

I guess I'm so used to not having a husband (I don't want one!) that i don't even factor it in, so understand OP is in a different situation.

Sometimes though, it helps to see things from an alternative perspective. I think it very much depends on age too. After all OP's decision isn't it? All we can do is offer options.

Personally though in the next few years I can see that the whole way of working in the NHS must inevitably change, due to Covid and other factors.

You must do what feels right for you as a family.
Trust your gut.

So your husband CAN go part time. He’s just choosing not to as it will have a negative impact on his career prospects. Yet he’s presumably happy for you to give up your career completely? You’ve done the part time already to enable him to progress his career when the children were small. It’s his turn to make sacrifices for the next few years.

^^
This in spades.
OP what would happen if in 5 or 10 yrs time you and your OH for some reason split up and you'd given up your (likely) lucrative career to be a SAHM and he earned all the family money.

Nobody ever thinks it will happen to them. But it does. What sort of life would you then ge able to provide for your children compared to what you could do if you hadn't given up your career?

I would speak to some of your colleagues and try to speak to other more senior drs who have been in a similar position in the past. It's a very careers specific question.
I am married to a Consultant Cardiologist and we've been together since uni so I'm aware of the process and how hard it can be. I'm not a dr but an architect (so also lots of training and tough hours no shifts but lots of travel & stress) and we hit a similar decision point when I was pregnant with no.2 and I was being headhunted for a director role. I lost the baby (nothing to do with the stress, it just was) and that really made us stop and reassess everything in both our careers.
I am still an architect but I changed how I work, I'm lucky enough to be fully qualified so had a few more options open to me. We tried again and have no.2 - he just started school last week. I stepped back in my career and started my own practice so I could be more flexible (we don't have family help). I do miss the high profile work and sometimes have minor regrets but I also relish the time and flexibility especially as I unexpectedly ended up having to step up for my mother as she now has dementia.
Our eldest (12) spent his early years in nursery/school/ after school club and I asked him about it recently and he barely remembers it, even the trips when I travelled abroad for jobs which were heart wrenching at the time he has little memory of. He is however quite proud of what his mum does for a living.
I know quite a few drs who have been in the same position as you and they all struggle so it might be worth discussing with them the pros and cons of any decisions you take.
Whatever happens it'll be fine

@Thereisnogreengrass

So why does the op have to consider her options and her husband doesn’t? Please explain

I get that in n ideal world both parents taking a hit on their careers is better, but there are some jobs where it simply would be career suicide to work PT (for men or women) and telling the OP to tell her husband to consider his options just isn’t helpful

You sound like such a considerate, loving parent. Your children are lucky to have you.

The fact that you are considering giving it up really tells me that surgery isn’t something you’re so passionate about that no other speciality would do. You could consider GP training, for example. Much easier to do part time, although still stressful. You could also consider other careers that use medical qualifications such as working in pharmaceuticals or even as a benefits assessor for the DWP (it pays well even though it sounds potentially soul destroying). Alternatively could you look at doing locum shifts for a year or two? I have a couple of friends who’ve been doing that for a while now.

Why can't your DH be more flexible to help out and allow you to keep your career also?

*He is nearly finished so he can't go part time- although he's allowed, it would have a negative impact on his career prospects (there is still quite a lot of sexism about this in medicine).

So your husband CAN go part time. He’s just choosing not to as it will have a negative impact on his career prospects. Yet he’s presumably happy for you to give up your career completely?*

I agree with this.

I was in a similar situation a few years ago OP. Both in very demanding jobs. Small and difficult DC (one SN, both bad sleepers). No family help. Nanny resigned.

I left work. It was all too much and I just felt drained and couldn’t see the bigger picture. DH adamant that any request for lower hours on his part would be career suicide.

In the short term it was a big relief but a few years later I wish, wish, wish I had stayed in work somehow and insisted that my DH make some changes to his career to help more. Yes it would have impacted his career but 1) the sexism will continue until men start to make these requests and 2) so what if it did impact his career, that’s fair, he’s a parent too and it’s much fairer than me giving up mine completely.

We are now cemented in a 1950s set up where I am at home with the kids and he has the big career which can’t possibly be compromised. And because I’ve been out of work for a few years, my employment and earning potential is more limited, so that just cements the importance of his job even further.

Think about where you want to be in 5 years, 10 years. And think about how you will feel if your DH’s career forges ahead while you are at home doing laundry and picking up peas off the floor.

So your husband CAN go part time. He’s just choosing not to as it will have a negative impact on his career prospects. Yet he’s presumably happy for you to give up your career completely? You’ve done the part time already to enable him to progress his career when the children were small. It’s his turn to make sacrifices for the next few years.

You should reread this paragraph a few times. Sounds like your DH has decided his career is more important than yours. Giving up everything you have worked for to enable his career is setting one hell of a precedent for the rest of your married life.
Have good long look in the mirror - do you actually want to quit? Or do you feel that you are being forced to because the needs of everybody else in the family are higher priority that your own?

If you do want to quit, you should.
If you don't, it's time to have an honest conversation with your DH about what a marriage of 2 equals looks like in the real world.

But it's not just any old job you'd be quitting is it. To get this far it must be a passion so really if I were you I would do whatever it takes to stick with it. Your children will be fine, and what a great role model you would be for them. Your DH needs to get on board and help you come up with a sustainable option, rather than just take the easy way out and let you quit.

When I had DS my DH told me I didn't need to go back to work. Thankfully I did as we split when DS was 11 and if I hadn't had had a decent job we'd have been screwed as I had to support him alone. It was my choice to leave the marriage, but if I'd given up my job that wouldn't have been an option for me.

Please persist if you can, it would be such a shame to chuck away all that training. Your kids will grow old and become more independent, don't let them become your only world, the world is so much larger than that.

I gave up my career in the city to be with my children and I haven’t regretted it for a moment. My DH earns less than I did but we are still comfortable.

I know it’s not a popular view on here but they are only little for such a small amount of time that I didn’t want to miss it.

Your decision sounds very hard but the current situation seems very stressful.

I work for an investment bank. 60 hour week is the norm for me. I know it doesn't compare to being a Doctor but I had exams to sit as well and when my DD was very small it was quite hard. DH worked for a solicitor and our childminder was unreliable, always swanning off on holiday and expecting us to drop everything to accommodate this. We have no family. We didn't really have any friends who could step in and help. We existed on after school clubs and a DD who hung around in shops after school waiting to be picked up. Yes I know it sounds awful and neglectful. Somehow we made it.

I realise we only had one DC to worry about and I was able to WFH (which I started after I took the rubbish out one day and my two year old DD said "Have a nice day at work, Mummy") but I am SO GLAD I persisted as DH had to give up his job due to ill health. If I had given up my job I would never have gotten another as well paid and with such a good pension. You never know what the future holds.

My DD wasn't traumatised by my long absences. She didn't grow up to be an unsociable problem child, she wasn't a failure at school, she didn't become a drug addict. She's now an 18 year old university student very strong and responsible. Loves her Mum and Dad. Real homebody. She is PROUD of what I do. Please don't believe newspaper stories of child deprivation due to full time working Mothers.

I’m a GPST2 and have been part time (60%) since I got back from maternity leave in March. I’m finding it a great balance and the scheme are really flexible with working days etc. I’ve completed the busy acute jobs and I’ll be starting my final year in January. The exams have changed since covid and there is just the AKT to do which is about 3- 4 months of revision. The CSA has changed to be video recorded hours while at work... no one knows if that will continue but they’ve said it will do for the foreseeable future. I’ve started to revise for the AKT and I think it’s do-able at weekends and evenings after my LB has gone to bed although I’m getting quite a bit of guilt with that.

Although part-time GP training would be at least another 4-5 years, I think the balance is good and as you’ve already completed a few years of surgical training you might be able to do an even shorter training programme. I know a couple of people (one an anaesthetics trainee) who did a shorter GP training period (2.5 years) as they’d already put the hours in.

I think it’s amazing that you’re a female surgeon as they are so few and far between. It would be such a shame to give up medicine after so many years of hard work, and it doesn’t sound like you hate the job. If you don’t want to be a GP I wonder if you could consider an academic post or similar for a couple of years while the children are still so young? You could do some clinical work occasionally to keep your skills up also. Good luck with whatever you decide!

And to all the posters saying about her husband going PT......totally depends what speciality he is in. In any speciality he is entitled to request PT working. In some specialities (neurosurgery, cardiothoracics, orthopaedics are just 3 that spring to mind) he would destroy his chances of getting a consultant post; they also specialities that aren’t exactly conducive to working PT. I get that in n ideal world both parents taking a hit on their careers is better, but there are some jobs where it simply would be career suicide to work PT (for men or women) and telling the OP to tell her husband to consider his options just isn’t helpful.