AIBU to give up a life's work to see my kids grow up

@doctormumoftwo

I am not a Doctor, but I am a mum, and I would say that you only come this way once. If your heart is telling you something I think you need to listen to it. Being a mum is an honor and a blessing, and you only borrow them for a short while. Soon you'll be left with a lot of time on your hands to pursue whatever you want to do. Fast forward 15 years.........what do you want to remember of this precious window of time you've been given?

If you think there's a chance you will look back with regret & remember long working hours, no time with your little ones, head and mind at work and stressed by it all then I would say it's not a good trade-off to progress the career route over your children.

Hi OP, haven't read the full thread, just your posts, so sorry if this has been said already.

Your choices are definitely not binary between continuing in your current specialty and stopping working altogether. You mentioned not wanting to do GP, which is fair enough, but there is a wealth of other options out there that don't have the unique and messy demands of surgery and which are totally doable as less than full time training.

For example, dermatology, radiology, opthalmology, histopathology, psych, etc all have much less antisocial working patterns. Some of these will also still give you options to use your surgical skills in another setting. You could also consider doing an out of program (maybe research, management or education fellowship) to give yourself a little breathing room.

Additionally, maybe surgery is right for you and the problem might just be your particular training post - some places are more family friendly than others. Have you spoken to your educational supervisor about the issues you're facing?

It also doesn't sound like you have a great quality of life where you are, is moving an option? Or transferring to another deanery?

Giving up work altogether is definitely also an option - I do know some female doctors who have successfully returned to medicine after a long career break - but it's definitely not your only choice here. You have a lot of avenues open to you.

I'd say have a think, maybe talk to other medic mums and weigh up all your options from there.

Good luck, OP.

It sounds like there's more to this than just work, clearly your housing situation and school isn't making you happy either so could you make changes there which would help?
Personally, I would not give up all the training, time and no doubt money that you have put into your career to quit at this stage, especially when the situation will improve in the long term. But, I'm also somewhat of the opinion of why have children and then pay someone else to have them most of the time. Assuming you knew what was involved in the training when you embarked on it and that you chose to have kids and combine the two then I think you're being a bit unreasonable.
I also think you're being very unreasonable in saying that your partner can't go part time as you have comparable careers and I would assume salaries, and i think you're being quite unreasonable in making out that it would be hard to live on one Dr's salary - have you seen what the average wage in this country is?!?

I am a recently retired NHS consultant (not a surgeon though). I would say absolutely do not give up your career and DO NOT give up your NHS pension in particular. You and your husband need to work together to make it work.

To those saying the OP can just take a few years out and then go back to her career, it really really doesn't work like that in medicine and especially not in surgery. If you are an established consultant and you take some time out (sabbatical, academic pursuits, retirement etc) then it is often possible to come back later, but not at the very early stage of her career the OP is at. She would get work, sure (if she remained current and up to date with CPD and validation etc) but not the training posts she would want and need to continue to develop her career.

Honestly, you need to change where you are working if people are being funny about men working less than full time.

Recently all the male consultants with children have had time off for childcare reasons during COVID- more so than the female consultants! It’s not been seen as wife work at all! You clearly need to come up north where you can have a big house and a taste of some 21st century attitudes!

I am a junior doctor and think there are definitely other options!

I’m astounded that you think it acceptable for your husband to not drop down to LTFT but it ok for you to give it up totally! Where I am just as many men work PT as women - because they like having a life too! Once he has achieved end of training can he not seek a job doing 8 PA’s?

You could take a staff grade surgical job so you can get lots of experience outside the constraints of training, do exams at your leisure then re-apply for your number in a few years?

You don’t have to do GP, you could apply for radiology? But realistically GP training can very easily be done 60% and only half of it is hospital work, it’s much more family friendly in terms of training. Radiology you won’t be on call alone for a few years- I have a friend who was a surgical Reg who has just switched and loves it.

If you are done with the job and hate it, then quit. But if you still enjoy it then there are plenty of ways you can carve out a career and still be a very good mum.

Haven’t read through the thread yet but will do. If you can take 3 months’ break, if you can financially afford it, perhaps it’s best to do that? Give yourself some breathing space and time to think.

I would not give up. I want something for me when kids older and in case marriage not forever.

Who knows what the future holds.

Good luck. GP is a much more flexible option if you're willing to compromise

OP I feel for you - medicine is such a difficult one to balance esp with a working husband/father too. My best friend is a junior doctor married to a lawyer and she always says (slightly bitterly) that the advice she’d give any young woman wanting to be a surgeon is not to marry an ambitious man.

The thing that jumps out to me is that your childcare looks really patchy. I know nannies are crazily expensive etc but can you afford getting in rock solid childcare for 6 months and THEN see how you feel? It seems emotionally impossible for you to make a sensible decision when you don’t have the stability and continuity of care right now.

My dh would absolutely be going part time. I would probably say I’ve thought about it and I took a career hit twice to be pregnant and have babies so it’s your turn now, you should give notice and I’ll go full time. From there he could negotiate going part time instead AS LONG as he carries his share of the organisation load of childcare and home. Otherwise his job goes so he can adequately support his family. Yes he will be judged but so will you for your breaks already taken and he can still have his career. It’s just you get one too. (Not medicine but we are both full time, dc 2 & 5. I do have a surgeon friend whose wife is an anaesthetist, they had 4 children while studying and qualifying so it was hard yards)

OP - I gave up a professional career to be a stay home mum . I fully appreciated the risks I was taking and I don’t regret it one bit . I thought I’d go back to work in a non professional role once they are both in secondary - now not so sure I will . Tweens need just as much attention as toddlers - just different

“He is nearly finished so he can't go part time- although he's allowed, it would have a negative impact on his career prospects (there is still quite a lot of sexism about this in medicine).*

So your husband CAN go part time. He’s just choosing not to as it will have a negative impact on his career prospects. Yet he’s presumably happy for you to give up your career completely? You’ve done the part time already to enable him to progress his career when the children were small. It’s his turn to make sacrifices for the next few years.“

This this and this.

Why oh why husbands can never go p/t, put their career in hold, slow them down etc. The choice are always for the wife to do everything or give up everything. You clearly slowed down your career for the children and for the family it is his time now.

My ex dh did this to me, word for word, “i cannot work part time” “sexism in the work place” “building a career” etc. I chose to stay at home for a few years. Full of resentment. We are not together anymore. Resentment built.
Interestingly when it did suit him, when the decision was his he had no rpoblem going p/t or working from home etc.
Most places at work are sexist but I know plenty of men who have juggled their career as a team.

Not telling you off OP of course, I am just angry that time and time again it is a problem inherently female. Piases me right off. What kind of hope there is for my DDs? We tell DDs to study and then they get to give it up for marriage?

Don’t give up op, but don’t make it all your responsibility.

Childhood is so short. I wish I was at home more with mine. I will never get that time or those lost memories back. It's a 1 time thing. My teen barely wants to speak with me now (we do get on but hes very much a typical teen). But I can re-train again at any age and now with older kids is a good time for that. Quitting my job when mine was 2 or 3 years old was the best thing I ever did. I didn't even know what my kid had in his sandwich I remember being in tescos and calling the old nanny to see what he ate. So bad.

It's such a personal decision but if it's worth anything, I would quit. I always remember someone telling me not to work too hard because at the end of the day when I am at the end of my years it is unlikely to be my former clients or work colleagues holding my hand on my death bed, it will be my family. My gravestone won't list my career achievements but the family I've left behind. So I work as much or as little as I need to get by and cherish that time instead. In my mind life's too short for career ambition (I appreciate this may not be the case for everyone, particularly where there's been a lot of hard work and sacrifice already). My DH has a medical condition with a very unclear prognosis which has really brought this to the fore in our minds recently. I will certainly grow old with unfulfilled potential, but I'm pretty happy just muddling along, having adventures along the way.

So much terrible advice on here, basically telling you to abandon any achievement for yourself or any ambition you may have as a person. It's like a slew of recommendations from the 50's.
OP, you have worked very hard to excel and make something of yourself, in a field that desperately need women's inputs. This is yours, and will be for the rest of your life. Do not throw that away for the convenience of your husband and for maybe 5-10 years of being full times with your children. Your husband will not be defined only by being a father, do not do yourself the disservice of being only defined as a mother while you could be so much more. Get yourself the support you both need as parents to function, buck the trend and ask from your husband the same sacrifices you may have to make.

It will be impossible to go back to work as if a hiatus of 5-10 years was nothing. You will have lost so much.

Perhaps, you could take a few months off and see how you feel. I don’t think you should give up your career. I’m saying this as someone who doesn’t have children and only works part time. This is because, I envy those that actually want to do a profession and have motivation. I don’t seem to be interested in anything. It seems that you enjoy the job but your quality of life isn’t good. I would relocate to somewhere cheaper and get a bigger house with a garden if you have the money. Get a new nanny as well. I would take time off to organise this.

Your children will get older and eventually leave one day. And once they are in full time education you might be bored or regretful. It seems that you’re the sort of person that wants a career so I wouldn’t give up. I know many friends who have mothers that were stay at home mums. Then when they’ve started uni, their mums have started to do part time work. But say for example, you’re no longer with your husband how can you afford this? And for someone that wants a career, this could be very unfulfilling working part time in a school or something like that.

I don’t know why people keep saying to give up work and be a mum. Are those that work not a mum?

One thing to add OP ( sorry I bet you're all advised out by now). If you do choose to give up work then please get yourself financially protected from the get go. Do NOT depend on your husband's goodwill somewhere down the line. Talk to him now. You'll need a private pension paid into every month and some family savings/long term investments that can be split 50:50 in case of divorce. A car in your name. Health insurance. Stuff like that. Dont join the legion of women who give it all up for their families only to be stranded trying to bring up two kids and but their husbands out of the family home, or having to scrape together a pension age 55+, because the main wage earner has changed the rules. There are lots of them out there who thought it would never end up like that.

Keep going. Short term pain for long term gain.

I haven't dared have this conversation with colleagues because we're in lockdown and I haven't been able to have those quick chats in Court or in the robing room. I wonder if you have any other observations? My main difficulty is the fact I will be left with the crap work if I return part-time with no way of saving anything decent for mat leave no.2. I'm wondering about going in-house for a couple of years between the first and second child.

My advice to OP is to take three months off (to sort out childcare/press the reset button), then carry on in the New Year. I spent some time doing divorce work at the start of my career. I saw so many women quit their jobs and become home maker, only to feel so short changed 10-15 years down the line when their children no longer needed them and their relationship didn't work out. The jealousy they had towards their husband was awful; they felt they had given their family/him everything and in turn had nothing left for themselves, 10-15 years down the line. My motto has always been, the time is going to pass anyway so don't worry too much about that. You will be setting the best example to your children if you finish this. I have utmost sympathy for you though. You sound worn out and stressed. Legally, your husband can take 4 weeks unpaid leave each year. I wonder if he could spread the load a little by taking that 4 weeks, if you were to return in say January? Your career is as important as his. No ones should take priority. Also, from a tax POV, its far better to have 2 parents working 4 days a week than 1 parent working full-time. Just a thought.

What an absolute waste of an education, drive and ambition. I think you’d be mad to give it up and agree with everyone saying your husband needs to be more flexible.

I worked when my kids were little, 4 days a week until 8 years ago when I went back full time. Youngest was one. Older were three. I don’t regret that at all. I don’t regret time I didn’t spend with them, I didn’t miss out on anything, I made just as many memories as a SAHM did, although arguably I probably have fewer of the more tedious aspects of parenting.

I don’t especially like my job, and it’s nothing like as stressful as medicine. But for me it’s important that I have something that isn’t just me being a mum. I don’t think a man would ever ever be told to quit a job as he’ll miss the time with his children growing. Ever.

Let go of the guilt and get angry at your husband. I’m angry with him and I’ve got only two of your posts to go on!

A paeds surgeon where I live told her female trainees that it would be tough with children, that she’d missed many of her DC’s school events and that none of it would be possible without her DH who had more flexibility in his working hours. She’s very respected and I don’t think was warning them off, just being realistic. Presumably it’s worse with a sub specialty like paeds where the on call will be more frequent and you’re probably going to have to come in more.

The demands of surgical training, 2 small DC and a DH who also works full time and long hours are untenable. Something will have to give, but I don’t think it needs to be your entire medical career.

You can’t take 5 years out of your surgical training and expect it to be there when you come back, but you know that.

The solutions are either your DH gains his consultancy then steps back for a bit to support you in your career, with a likely mix of nannies and family support. This is what many women do for their male partners, unthinkingly, all the time. Your male surgical trainee colleagues with children most likely aren’t thinking about giving it all up for their children.

Or you reconsider another specialty. Surgery for any person, irrespective of sex, is a time-consuming, vocational career. It’s fine to decide that you want to change specialty so you can see more of your young children. But don’t give it all up just because the entire burden has fallen on you.

TraderJoe Gosh that is so tough

I’d give up job and be mum for next few years.
You can always pick your career up later but you can’t get back the childhood.
I gave up career to be SAHM for 7 years. Back in same career now.

Wow @TraderJoe!

I must say that giving up being financially indepedent is something I could never do!