Am AIBU to think Covid has changed us all?

All good points too Hamstersarse.

Particularly the one about organisations failing to adapt - the most overused phase of 2020 is "because of Covid 19 we are unable to....even if it's life or death" The long term inability to get a face to face GP consultation, the diagnostic tests that haven't been done, the cancer and other treatments backlog, the effect on mental health and children's services.

I'm not going to deny there is things I'm struggling with and will struggle with.

But I've learnt so much about myself and how I am able to TA and adapt in ways I didn't realise.

not everyone has an excess BMI because of irresponsibility

Unless someone has been held captive and force fed, this isn't the case.

Everyone has total autonomy about what goes into their mouths.

I say this as someone who had to take a high dose of steroids throughout pregnancy and spent 9 months almost literally chewing my arm off with hunger - I had a choice about whether I gave in to it though, just like everyone else does too.

I think if I only saw this situation through the prism of Mumsnet, I'd think it had brought out the arsehole in an awful lot of people!

@NikeDeLaSwoosh, that isn't the case globally and not everyone has an excess BMI because of irresponsibility.

The same was said about HIV, it was a moral failing to catch it. It's said that if Africans would only go to bed early, behind nets tbey wouldn't need help regarding Malaria. Your logoc could be applied to so many things and laws in our society. It's often used against welfare spending and reproductive rights.

@bibbitybobbitycats
BupkisI am sorry about your mum.
Thankyou.

Why would there be civil unrest?

Do you really think it really matter that much whether an octogenarian care home resident dies today of Covid, or next month from a heart attack?

There seems to be this odd idea that people who are 'saved' from Covid have somehow been made immortal, but this simply isn't the case.

I've never ever had any form of depression but I feel this whole thing has negatively impacted my cheery nature immensely. Namely:

• The number of people with health anxiety is overwhelming, huge numbers of people unable to rationally look at the statistics and gain perspective and this anxiety has infected every area of our lives. It is also contagious so impacts the mood everywhere

• I seem to have developed a lack of patience for people who do not accept their own role in the virus risk. I do not mean face masks and other equally minor interventions, I mean people who are clearly ill due to their lifestyle ( obesity, T2 diabetes etc) who do nothing about it yet expect everyone else who does make an effort with their health to have to limit their movements and life because they are 'high risk'. I have no sympathy for people who have done nothing to be immune healthy when it is obvious that it is literally the best thing they can do. I hate feeling this, but I feel it very strongly. I want people to take responsibility for their own health, as much as they possibly can and stop going on about more funding for the NHS as they sit there with very clear actions they can take on their own health.

• I have lost respect for most Public Sector organisations, who I have seen use every possible pathetic reason to stop services. Imagine if Tesco had said "sorry we can't meet demand and it's too risky to open'' and just shut up shop. Instead they quickly and efficiently adapted. employing thousands more workers and shifting to online etc. The chasm between public and private is unforgiveable.

• I have always had a keen sense of mortality, knowing my time could be up any day and I totally accept that. The constant narrative around 'every death is a tragedy' is just so immature. We place a value on life all the time. Insurance companies literally have a price on it. As harsh as it sounds, an 85 year old with heart failure and dementia does not have the same value as a child of 16. We need to have grown up conversations about this, yet instead you are accused of being callous if you happen to suggest it is not the same if an 85 year old like above dies compared to a 16 year old. We all know this intuitively, but FFS, why can't you say it? The virtue signalling around this has been so depressing. I even know that someone will pick me up on this with some trite saying about "the measure of society is how you treat the vulnerable" ...but the point is, is it worth shutting down whole economies for people who are very very ill and will almost definitely die in the next 6 months? I don't think so - life is cruel and I think a lot of people are just unable to face that. What I do know is that if I were the 85 year old, I would never expect the young to be missing opportunities on my behalf.

It's changed my opinion of a lot of other people, hugely.

The death rate from being born is 100%. This is just a non-argument.
And what about the point I was making, that there would be civic unrest?

Ironically, one of the main reasons we have had such a high number of covid deaths is that we are really good at keeping people alive in this country - our record on Cancer treatment and cardiac care is exemplary, hence we have such an aged population, hence we have many covid deaths.
No, that's not the case. The UK comes way down the list. Germany, for example, has more elderly people. See www.statista.com/statistics/1105835/share-of-elderly-population-in-europe-by-country/

It is a slippery slope when we start trying to make other people responsible for our own health.

I've said this before, but if everybody maintained their BMI within normal parameters, Covid wouldn't have had anything like the impact it has.

People need to take responsibility for themselves.

The whole idea of destroying the lives of our young people (who are unable to vote and hence powerless) simply because some adults are unable to stick to a diet is just appalling. History will judge us harshly for this.

who are these people who have reached the end of their natural lifespan, yet still want to throw their own DC and GDC under the bus so that they can have a few more years of life and having voted for Brexit too. They really hate their dc and gdc, don't they?

Not sure our record on cancer treatment is exemplary though, don't we have one of the poorest survival rates in Western Europe?

Brexit is now not going to be the big event of the end of this year, I think, and that seems appropriate

Oh it will! Brexit is going to make the "toilet roll wars" look civilised!

It hasn't changed me but I have had my eyes opened to just how many people have health anxiety

I didn't realise that until I saw all the posts on MN worrying about chicken pox, which I had always thought was pretty mild for the vast majority of people (I do get it's not much of a consolation if it's not for you or your child). Any new virus was likely to be chicken pox times 100.

Lol xposted with you @BeingLonely

People are just being true to type aren't they !

What it's done is double-underline the people who are community minded and who couldn't give a stuff about other people and just want to do what they want to do. Based on the behaviour of the people on the Tui flight from Greece.

It definitely showed me the selfishness and entitlement of the general public.

Nikedelaswoosh - totally agree with you.

Society definitely needs a grown up conversation about death and how death is the part of life we are all going to face.

Also a conversation about our health - think it was generally acknowledged that our pop is one of the most overweight and therefore sickest in Europe, which could well have contributed to our higher death rate (though remember all countries count deaths in different ways so the bare figures need more subtle interpretation.)

I'm definitely more of a fan of the Swedish approach. Know pop density etc is different but its more sustainable for a long term approach.

Also need statistics to be taught more thoroughly - I have been shocked by peoples lack of knowledge. Really think the use of statistics during Covid might make a very good future school lesson in bad practise.

The UK already has the highest death rate in Europe

The death rate from being born is 100%. This is just a non-argument.

Quite apart from anything else, who are these people who have reached the end of their natural lifespan, yet still want to throw their own DC and GDC under the bus so that they can have a few more years of life?

Its just unconscionable.

...and before anyone jumps on me with the 'young people get it too' argument, the overwhelming majority of deaths have been in the elderly. Not a single healthy child has died in this country, not 1.

Ironically, one of the main reasons we have had such a high number of covid deaths is that we are really good at keeping people alive in this country - our record on Cancer treatment and cardiac care is exemplary, hence we have such an aged population, hence we have many covid deaths.

India, for example has had comparatively few deaths with Covid, because they simply don't have the same elderly population that we do, largely because their healthcare is so poor. Hence you are statistically far more likely to survive Covid in India, because statistically you are likely to be much younger.

I think we should have just carried on
The UK already has the highest death rate in Europe; if it had gone on unchecked, and people were still dropping like flies now, would there not have been civil unrest, riots, a forced election ...?

Instead of juicy headlines about number of deaths, we should have focused on 'life years' being lost, this would have given us a far more accurate measure of the severity of this virus for society.

All this virus does is bring forward the deaths of people who for the most part didn't have long left anyway, or choose to be obese.

People just seem to have missed the actual issue here; the ever increasing numbers of new human viruses caused by zoonotic transmissions.

There will certainly be a new Covid along very soon, just think how awful it would be if that was one which disproportionally kills children and babies?

Why is nobody up in arms over China's shocking approach to wild animal consumption? Jair Bolsonaro's devastation of the rainforests? (putting humans in far closer proximity to wild animals than ever should be the case)

No, lets all froth over hand gel and masks, because that's the important thing!

I also think we need to reassess our feelings about death. Somehow pointing out that someone is going to die is nowadays seen as a dreadful taboo.

All of us are going to lose our parents at some point, I think we need to become comfortable with that fact, rather than throwing astonishing amounts of resources at keeping them alive far beyond their natural lifespan.

I have tried to make it really positive for my children. We are unable to take them out at the moment as we've lost ,£250 a month due to overtime not existing anymore. So we have been doing walks, paddling pool days and things. Lots of walks in the woods and stuff too. But money is a huge factor in many people's recovery. The stress of paying for things on reduced money and job losses.

Despite how low I've felt I've tried to hide it from everyone. Ive only told two people. I am a bag of nerves about feeling energetic enough to do school weeks again. But on the other hand in hoping having purpose again and having structure is going to really help. I have been living for sleep lately so I can be in my own world abit. It's the only escape sometimes. But when I'm thinking lately I start thinking about the old times. The fun we used to have. I said to my partner I missed the smell of the popcorn at the cinema and sitting in the recliner chairs enjoying a film. I miss taking the kids to garden centers for cake and stuff. But I don't want to do it with masks. I just don't. It's sad that I feel that way. I just can't embrace it.

Like everyone else, I have had to make adaptations to follow the rules, especially as I'm extremely clinically vulnerable and so continue to be more mindful about risk. But I don't feel as though I have been affected in a way that has nudged my personality or will leave a mark.

I know for certain that I don't want to homeschool - ever- I have some clarity on how much weight I can pack on when everyday is a weekend for months on end and I think I'll never let the pantry run low for some time to come but I won't walk away from this depleted.

Exactly. But this also applies to taking precautions on behalf of others too. You may not think your risk is great and are happy to ignore SD, but mine may be increased by sitting next to you on the train or if my child sits next to yours in the classroom. It is up to all of us to behave in a way that minimizes BOTH the risk to ourselves and families, and to the wider community. We shouldn't choose one over the other.

Definitely, and I'm totally okay with social distancing and wearing masks and washing my hands more, or using sanitiser when I go into shops. But that's not the same as people shutting themselves off from the world over this, and encouraging their children to do the same.

My parents are behaving ridiculously about it. They won't even sit in my garden for a cuppa as they have to walk through my house. They've cancelled a trip to stay with my sister in her house because a guest at the place my sister works at tested positive.