To be annoyed at IVF comments

But it isn't a need. It's a want. It may be something you want greatly, but that doesn't make it become a need.

What are the mental health implications when it comes to failed IVF, as the majority of treatments fail.

I'm so sorry strawberryshortcake. Many people just don't understand to be honest. All the research proves that going through infertility causes similar stressed levels to a bereavement or severe illness.
As someone who has gone through IVF , it was like my future had been destroyed along with my hope and dreams. Amazingly I am grateful to say I have two beautiful children (both IVF) but I can't forget that agonising feeling. I can only imagine how it must be for you at the moment. Having treatment cancelled must be horrific. I am so sorry.
Please just ignore the other comments, anyone who has gone true infertility sympathises and understands. Wishing you all the bestxxxx

@peperethecat my heart goes out to you. I have been there and for me there was no child at the end of it. I hope for you that you get the baby you deserve and long for so much.

For everyone suffering this cruel disease love and hope for a happy ending. And if you don't get yours, then I am proof that there is a light at the end of the long, dark tunnel. There is a life out there for you. It might not take away the pain, but when the time is right, you can smile again and find joy in other things.

The NHS is not limited to diseases, it helps with cosmetic issues, speech delays, autism, birth control... - note, I am not saying these are less worthy to be under NHS remit, just that they are also not diseases but that their inclusion is less controversial for some reason.

Well obviously autism and speech delay don't come under scrutiny, one is a disability and the other a possible symptom of a disability. If you don't treat speech delay, the person may never be able to communicate if someone doesn't have IVF... They don't have a baby that's biologically theirs. Otherwise their life is the same as it always has been. If speech delay isn't helped, it could literally impact all their chances in life. How can you compare the two?

WriteAndErase: I too never thought of infertility as a 'disease' but apparently some do:

www.bioedge.org/bioethics/is-infertility-a-disease/12551

I don't grudge the op some NHS treatment and I hope it is successful, it does work sometimes. From what I've read, it is not a particularly pleasant thing to undergo, I'm pretty sure I wouldn't have been brave enough but who knows? Nobody knows how they'd feel in a similar position.

Just to really wind up the anti IVF on the NHS brigade, we got NHS funding for IVF because we can't conceive naturally since we're a lesbian couple.

Turned out my wife also has fertility issues so even if she was with a man she would still have needed IVF but we didn't find that out until half way through and it had no impact on our funding decision.

I've always thought that if it didn't occur naturally it wasn't intended to for a reason

So if a woman has complications during childbirth, we can just let her and the baby die. Because, you know, naturally it wasn't intended for a reason. Same for cancer, right? You get cancer, it must be naturally meant to be, so no NHS treatment for you.

@Linning so if IVF is taken off the NHS you’re in favour of you not having children? Or... are you in a financial position to pay for it privately? As that would explain your blase attitude toward it being removed. So again if it doesn’t affect you you’re happy for it being removed.

@TigerQueenie

No one ‘needs’ to have reconstruction surgery after cancer.

No one needs to have white fillings in their front teeth as opposed to amalgam.

Not everyone needs physio for a torn ACL. I didn’t. (And when I had it - despite wanting it rather than actually needing it - it was covered by my private policy even though it was offered on the NHS)

Not everyone needs smoking cessation services from the NHS. My household earns 6 figures a year. When I quit smoking I paid for it. I could have got it funded by the NHS.

You may wish it were the case, but the NHS doesn’t just cater for need as opposed to want.

I'm not quite sure why people are comparing IVF to treating lifestyle related diseases, maternity care, etc. People forget that those lives are already in existence, and so therefore it would be incredibly immoral and frankly impossible to draw a line on those types of 'choices'. No NHS maternity care? Women would die, not just their babies. Their babies health could be very poory impacted. No treatment because you chose to smoke? They're dead soon then.

I think it's horrific that whoever knows about your situation told you that IVF shouldn't be NHS funded But, I do agree. Sadly. NHS funding isn't a bottomless pit. And as sad as it is, some things just really aren't necessary for a healthy life or to continue living. But more counselling might be a good thing to invest in.

I haven't experienced infertility but I have experienced child loss. My DD was already gone when I went into premature labour. I birthed her alone with judt DH there. It was so traumatic. And we were left so angry and upset. We complained and wanted answers, and the truth was they were so short staffed that the midwives on shift needed to be more present for the labouring women with healthy, living babies. Obviously someone should've been present for my health as a woman but this was in terms of monitoring, and they knew she'd already gone. And she came so quickly, if someone was monitoring me closely they'd have caught her.

I try to take comfort in the other babies that night being safe and well as possible

I've always thought that if it didn't occur naturally it wasn't intended to for a reason. A little like I've always maintained my miscarriage was because of something wrong with the foetus. Bodies are pretty clever

If my body was clever it would make foetuses which don't have things wrong with them rather than making me suffer four miscarriages in a row.

I might have been able to be philosophical about it like you if I'd only had one and then gone on to have a healthy baby, but since that hasn't happened for me I spend most of my time cursing my body for being so stupid that it can't do this one supposedly very simple thing that nearly every other woman's body can do without too much difficulty.

@WriteAndErase I hope you are planning to contact the world health organisation and British medical council with the medical evidence you have that it is not a disease and they are wrong?

Can you outline your medical and scientific qualifications for us that lead you to the conclusion it’s not a disease or are you simply another ill informed uneducated poster spouting your mouth off about something you have no knowledge about?

For me it comes down to need v want. Nobody needs to have children, they want to.

Good for you if you don't need children.

I want a new car and for lockdown to be lifted so I can go on holiday.

I need to have a child.

@raspberryk “ I've always thought that if it didn't occur naturally it wasn't intended to for a reason. A little like I've always maintained my miscarriage was because of something wrong with the foetus. Bodies are pretty clever”

Ah that old chestnut. So you believe that when a heroin addict or alcoholic gets pregnant naturally it’s ‘meant to be’ that their child is born screaming and with a drug addiction or feral alcohol syndrome? As after all if was natural so it must’ve been meant to be.

Do you also believe if someone has a heart attack that they shouldn’t receive medical treatment as that would be going against the body and body knows best? Or if your child got cancer then you wouldn’t treat it as that would be using science to interfere and going against the body which knows best?

@TigerQueenie

I’m not sure it could be described as ‘want’ as oppose to a ‘need’ though. We are born to procreate. The urge is so strong for most women that’s why we do it. The urge we have is so strong to make sure we continue to procreate.

If we can’t conceive that’s going to cause a hell of a lot of turmoil. Those urges are so powerful and instinctive so it’s not as simple as saying it’s a ‘want’.

Most women find it straightforward, but for those that don’t, where does that leave them? I imagine with mental health issues.

As the NHS fund mental health issues, why not use the money to help them before they need the mental health support.

I’ve been fortunate enough to conceive easily. It was luck, pure luck. Of course IVF should be NHS funded! I do think they need to address the postcode lottery with it though and the guidelines on age shouldn’t be subject to CCG decision, there should be a uniform national policy.

I wonder how much it costs for IVF and the subsequent NHS care during pregnancy and birth for one child compared to those of us who have 2 or more (naturally conceived or privately IVF funded) children?

For me it comes down to need v want. Nobody needs to have children, they want to. Likewise for a lot of other procedures too.

Unfortunately the NHS doesn't have unlimited funding and resource, so I truly believe the money available should be for need only.

Lots of people have babies naturally who can't save £5k.

Haven't read the full thread but what I always point out on these threads is that the NHS does not lose money by providing publicly funded ("free") IVF because it also provides privately funded (i.e. paid for by the recipient of the treatment) IVF AT A PROFIT - the NHS charges roughly the same as private clinics and provides far more non-funded cycles than funded ones

For many people they don’t have enough spare cash to save 5k plus per cycle.

If someone can't save 5k, how on earth can they afford a baby? Aren't children meant to cost about 10k a year to raise?

@HavelockVetinari

I never said I could afford it. What an assumption. I don’t even qualify for Funded IVF as it is anyway as I am not heterosexual anyway so I like to think I am not sitting from a golden throne looking down at people who can’t afford private IVF and can’t have kids naturally and aren’t allowed a chance to have IVF. I don’t begrudge one bit women who have access and have had access to IVF funded or otherwise, more power to them.

Like I said I emphasize with people who want to be parents and can’t naturally, I get it’s hard, it doesn’t mean I still don’t think it’s a luxury to have natural kids and not a need or necessity in a currently already overpopulated world when there are other avenues that can be pursued. IVF is fairly recent, infertility isn’t, I am not a bully for stating that fact, thank you.

And I am not exempt from my own opinion applying to me btw.

No, IVF should not be funded by the NHS when it is so appallingly underfunded. It should exist to save lives and treat very sick people. This will be my firm opinion all the while people have to have fundraisers to raise money for drugs and treatment for serious diseases that the NHS cannot afford.

Infertility isn't a disease.

I find that so sad that other women, who have children themselves can be do dismissive of the biological urge.

And yet so insistent about it when anyone asks them why they had/wanted children.

I say that as someone who conceived the first month with both children so ive never experienced the pain and heartbreak but I bet it’s immense