To be annoyed at IVF comments

I always thought one of the reasons the nhs funded it was because of access to healthcare for all, rather than a right to have a child. Equality of access is fundamental to how this country views healthcare, and if ivf wasn’t covered only rich infertile people could afford treatment which goes against all the values our health system is set up around.

I found the Fertility Friends website hugely helpful too. I still have friends - real life friends - from that site now.

This thread isn't any indication of this but other women, especially those in the same situation, can really be saviours in this horrible, unenviable situation no one would choose to be part of.

I thought ivf pregnancy were higher risk 🤔 I looked it up recently but cannot for life of me remember why, something to do with increased risk of preeclampsia?

To all those with children who are being dismissive of IVF, try living every hour of every day feeling pointless. Try and count the number of times per day you see ‘family’ this and ‘family’ that. The barrage of ‘my life wasn’t complete without kids’ ‘I didn’t know what love was’ ‘my kids are my world’, ‘as a mother.....’ and the list goes on.

Tbh some days I would rather have cancer then infertility, the depression is that crushing.

@Strawberryshortcake28 go to the infertility boards here. You will find two things in short supply here; support and information.

Sending you the biggest of hugs if you'd like them, @DellAmorenonsisa. I can almost feel the pain in those posts. My God, that stuff hurts.

I would give you the £5K if I could.

@DellAmorenonsisa Sending love and strength to you x
Try to ignore the idiots and their toxic opinions on here. None of them matter - only the people that love and care for you.

given that nature wouldn’t have given you one anyway?

Massive slippery slope you’ve careered off there,

‘Nature’ would have the cancer patients die. Is that ok with you?

@DellAmorenonsisa the personal effects you’ve listed a few posts above mirror mine so much I could have written it myself.

Please don’t leave. Don’t let the keyboard warriors win.

@WhizzingFizzbee

I see from your recent posts you are on maternity leave.

How nice for you. Hope you are having a nice time with your baby.

Fuck me. This site is a real shit show sometimes.

@WhizzingFizzbee what makes you think ivf pregnancy is high risk? An ivf pregnancy is treated the same as any other by the nhs ie ‘normal’.

There are risks associated with multiples however, UK fertility centres are well regulated in how many embryos can be transferred. Centre outside the Uk are not. So one of the unintended consequences of pushing women outside of the nhs to pay for their own treatment is that many will travel abroad and have multiples transferred. Then voila, the nhs is obliged to deal with what’s there.

@WhizzingFizzbee hugely inaccurate. IVF pregnancies are not automatically higher risk

The argument that IVF is taking money away from cancer is rubbish. If funded IVF costs the NHS £68m a year (as per previously quoted article), then if they stopped funding this, do you think that that would actually go to another department? It is just another £68m the government wouldn't give the NHS in the first place.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/8142988/

To compare the psychological symptoms of infertile women with patients with other chronic medical conditions, subjects completed the Symptom Checklist-90 (Revised) (SCL-90R), a standardized, validated and widely used psychological questionnaire, prior to enrolling in a group behavioral treatment program. All subjects were female and the totals in each program were as follows: 149 with infertility, 136 with chronic pain, 22 undergoing cardiac rehabilitation, 93 with cancer, 77 with hypertension, and 11 with human immunodeficiency virus (HIV)-positive status. The infertile women had global symptom scores equivalent to the cancer, cardiac rehabilitation and hypertension patients

But sure who gives a shit about us. Not the evil hags on mumsnet sitting with zero empathy or even human compassion for those in pain. You’re scum.

Petri!

@HavelockVetinari

I said I do not qualify for funded IVF, I am not part of the NHS system, I am part of another similarly funded medical system that offer funded IVF for straight couples (and other specific cases) that don’t include mine. My opinion is still relevant because it has to do with funded IVF whether we are talking about the NHS or my own is irrelevant as is whether I personally qualify for IVF or not (I don’t) as my opinion remain the same regardless and I have already stated that yes it would apply to me and my personal situation and would impact me as much as any other woman.

Me having a certain opinion about medical funds that doesn’t match my own personal situation and doesn’t benefit me personally, doesn’t mean I can’t feel for women who crave for a biological baby and need IVF to do so. I very much get it (I also lost a baby in-utero a couple of years ago so I definitely understand the different type of loss that can come with fertility/fertility issues and the pain and suffering that comes with it).

On another token:

The current quarantine doesn’t benefit me one bit, it doesn’t mean I don’t still feel it’s the right thing for the population as whole. Not everything is personal.

Sorry, I was talking about the petrol dish comment.

That was just, no I have no words.

Infertility is not a disease.
Actually, the WHO classes it as a disease.

Infertility may be caused by a disease.
Infertility affects both women and men.
That’s the only thing you’re got correct so far.

However, the state/NHS should not be obliged to provide a child "on demand" just because people are having fertility problems.
Jesus wept. I WISH it produced a child on demand. I’d be a lot healthier & richer if it did.

The success rate for IVF is somewhere around 15%, which is a low ROI.
If it “produces children on demand” then it’s not very good at it, is it?
The success rate is actually around 40% on the first cycle.

@WhizzingFizzbee

I'm sorry - i'm really confused. Am I.. not living? I'm pretty sure the OP and all the other women ( or "The infertile" as you call them) struggling with fertility are also living, breathing real actual human beings with feeling, hopes and dreams.

As for your petri dish baby comment. I have reported you.

Hideous.

Someone upthread mentioned a list of misconceptions. I’d agree with them all and add a couple more; the price of private Ivf is not indicative of the actual cost to the nhs; a course of ivf treatment is 3 rounds (hence the NICE guidelines) not 1 as conception in any form will always have an element of chance. Saying ‘it doesn’t always work’ and citing rate after 1 cycle is a bit like expecting chemo to work after 1 go.

@Trapordo Christ you are cold. Apart from not having a biological child nothing else is different?

Well let me tell you what is different ‘apart from having a biological child’ to my life ore and post finding oIf we need IVF.

Uncontrollable crying
Out of the blue panic attacks which lead to diarrhoea.
Irrational fear my loved ones will die and I will be the only one left.
Lack of enthusiasm for life - night out, planning holidays meeting friends - all a burden
Severe loss of concentration in work and being unable to do tasks I previously flew through without a painful effort
No interest in job I previously loved or career
Hard to get up in the morning as what’s the point
Lost joy in hobbies I used to love and can’t find the energy to do them
Inability to look at other babies Or watch shows with children in without crying
Weight gain of over two stone due to emotional eating and now classified as overweight
Feelings of helplessness

And you’re saying that there’s nothing different in my life? My life is in tatters. And you would begrudge next £5k worth of treatment from the NHS.

I seriously hope karma doesn’t come back to haunt you for your cold cold attitude towards women you could be bar random chance and luck.

All of you posters are the most uncaring and horrific people I’ve ever had the misfortune to come across. I am deleting my account now and never setting foot on mumsnet again. I hope you all end up with huge misery in your lives. You deserve it.

I also wanted to add that the body who considers and recommends funding decisions based on clinical evidence (NICE) are EXTREMELY pro funding IVF on the NHS.

The reason being is this : they look at treatments in terms of number of years health achieved as a result of treatment. In the case of IVF they are seen to improve the health of (usually) two adults for whom infertility can cause significant mental health issues such as depression. And, there is the potential for a new life to be created - with whatever the average life expectancy is (85?). That is a massive ‘return’ on treatment cost. Whereas treating an 80+ year old for cancer might cost a lot but only yield +1 year, a poor ‘return’.

So there is immense logic behind defending NHS IVF treatment.

And there needs to be a special place in hell for the “why don’t you just adopt” squad.

This thread unfortunately brings out the worst in some people. It’s very sad. I can’t read any more. OP I hope everything goes well for you.