To be annoyed at IVF comments

@updownleftrightstart Criteria for automatic consultant led care must vary by hospital/area. So many things seem to. In my area, ivf pregnancy is not a reason to go down the consultant led path.

@GrumpyHoonMain

So eggs dont decline in quality with age in your view?

IVF should be available on the NHS, but I believe it should be means-tested. That way people with less money could have more goes.

@Wolfgirrl - yes in a nutshell. The reason why healthy and fertile first time mothers (who are older) have fewer kids is not down to fertility problems but other social factors. They tend to have less time to space pregnancies for example, more likely to breastfeed past 6 months (which can impact ovulation), more likely to be wealthier with jobs that encourage them to be one / two and done, etc.

@lozster my IVF pregnancy was consultant led and I had to have additional scans simply because it was IVF and therefore higher risk, no other reason. This may not be the case in every area but it certainly is where I live

@GrumpyHoonMain

So a healthy 39 year old is as fertile as a healthy 20 year old?

Unexplained is basically jargon for ‘issue we haven’t identified yet’. IVF clinics charge for further testing (and the NHS doesn’t offer it) so women with named health issues might be unexplained in one cycle and then once they have been tested have a named condition in the next.

That is misleading as it covers pregnancy at one year (women over 35 are encouraged to seek advice if they ttc longer than this) and the data comes from infertility clinics which make skew it due to women having health issues. 80% of women in all age groups will conceive within 2 years naturally if they don’t have a health issue.

@grumpyhoonmain

Not necessarily. Just found this on the Tommy's website:

One study found that for couples having regular unprotected sex:

around 7 out of 10 women aged 30 will conceive within one year; around 6 out of 10 women aged 35 will conceive within one year; around 4 out of 10 women aged 40 will conceive within one year.

There are several causes for fertility problems, but sometimes an exact cause can’t be found. This is called ‘unexplained infertility’. Unexplained infertility is rare when the woman is in her 20s but becomes the most common cause of infertility in women over 35 years of age.

I thought it was an accepted fact fertility declines with age regardless of medical problems, due to a loss in egg quality and the woman approaching perimenopause? So most women wont be as fertile at 38 as they were at 20. Of course there are always exceptions.

@Phineyj - the NHS giving IVF for free for 3 cycles (and basically subsidising UK private cycles) allows Eastern European / Spanish / Indian providers to be cheap. The HFEA advice is provided because it’s provided by the NHS and is followed around the world. The research funded by NHS cycles is used by other countries. The minute the NHS stops, the price of IVF (including testing) will go up worldwide.

This whole thread is shameful. You can agree or disagree with NHS funding for IVF but to be deliberately heartless and cruel in the way you phrase your response is absolutely revolting. Some of us have lived a cycle of grief over our period turning up each month, miscarriages, invasive testing, diagnoses (and often lack of), waiting lists for IVF, failed rounds etc for years. I started trying at 28. I am now almost 40. That's 12 years of living in limbo. 12 years of sadness. 12 years of putting on a brave face every time you see a pregnancy announcement, 12 years of all your savings going towards fertility treatments (in our case), 12 years of listening to inane, judgemental comments from people who choose not to understand. How any person can be so utterly cruel to someone going through the hell of infertility and to repeatedly kick them when they're down like so many of you have done on here is fucking shameful. And in years to come when your own children suffer infertility, because let's face it, it's becoming more and more common, I hope you remember the absolutely vile comments you posted on here, and I hope you never repeat those comments to your child who is crying in your arms because they can't have children of their own.

@Wolfgirrl - healthy women have always been able to have babies from their teens right up to their forties (and in India / Asia to their fifties) naturally throughout history. It came out of fashion in the 50s as unseemly / something the poor did but it definitely did happen. There is not a cliff top decline in fertility with age with healthy women - the women having problems in their 30s / 40s (even unexplained) would have had them in their twenties too. The difference is that if they ttc in their 20s then they have 10-20 years to sort the issues out.

The OP has not berated any one. This thread has shown there are some bloody heartless people out there.

Yanbu to feel very very sad

YABU however to berate people and start a thread that I dare say will upset you , when you really don’t need any
More grief right now

I am in the same boat as you, although not started the IVF process yet. People who have never struggled with fertility just don’t realise how lucky they are. Thinking of you

It is so shit, and my heart breaks for you all suffering infertility.

I had my own dalliance with it, 3yrs ttc mmc d&c hsg rpoc hyscopy clomid hsg again before a natural bfp.
I acutely remember the pain of the monthly bfn, the watching and hoping of signs since ovulation day, I love keeping up with the kardashians but couldn’t watch the series when khloe was pregnant as it was too painful for me!

People who have never experienced infertility won’t know this pain, but I worry people who make decisions about NHS funding haven’t either and that will lead to withdrawal of treatment.

@Mummyshark2018

I didnt say it was a factor for everyone! The essence of my post was that I wonder if the culture of having babies later has contributed to the number of people needing IVF. Thus depriving people that need it for established medical conditions of resources.

I certainly wasnt saying that everyone that has IVF has left it too late

@Wolfgirrl age wasn't a factor for me. I was 27 when I had ivf and 28 when dc was born. I feel very lucky that I did get it funded on the nhs. Would've had 3 cycles but luckily it worked first time.

Op I understand what it feels like and I hope you can proceed post COVID 💐

I don’t have to justify why I think that way.

No, but this is the type of thing people with no logical justification for their position say.

I really feel for you OP. I’m quite sure that a number of people who have told you it’s not a right have made lifestyle choices (smoking/overeating) who rely on the NHS, is rather see their funding head to you.

@WotnoPasta

Of course not but surely the increase in the age of first time mothers has something to do with it?

I've not rtft but my heart does break for op. Obviously ivf can't go ahead atm, hell I've had a colposcopy cancelled with no appointment in sight but I don't agree with the nhs has no money stance. I may be being very naive but my experience of the nhs has been absolutely outstanding but I've seen huge amounts of money being wasted. I think there's a problem with management in the extreme. As I said, my care and the care of my family has been fantastic but something is wrong somewhere. Post code lottery? More than that I imagine.

@Starlight1243 The NHS is a valuable asset we are lucky to have we are the only country to have this everyone else pays through insurance.

No. Most other European countries have a national health service paid for by the government with funds raised by taxes. The NHS is neither unique nor the best health service.

The irony of people harking about nastiness, whilst simultaneously judging everybody who isn't in favour of funded IVF as being completely naive and ignorant to the difficulties of not being able to conceive is staggering.

I've been there. I don't think there's an option we didn't explore. But here we are now, we're both happy and fulfilled.

@wolfgirrl It’s not just women who have issues. I was fine, in my 30s and was successful on first cycle. DH had a low sperm count because of another issue. Age isn’t always the factor.