To be annoyed at IVF comments

@Fridaysgirl well u TIL we left the EU it was as their is a jurisdiction that says everyone has a right to family life, i.e. Having children.

@Moomin12345 DH works for the NHS England, amongst other things does a lot of analytics and resource plannjng and management - it is one of the very, very few things that makes the NHS any money!!! Its a real cash cow. Its also cheap to provide. If you want to look at conditions that could save the NHS money (and infertility is a condition - also a condition which people don’t choose) look at chronic conditions which people choose to bring on themselves like smoking and obesity related diseases these are the things that drain the NHS not a couple of rounds of IVF!! Trusts don’t offer or cut back on it because it’s a easy win.

I feel for you OP I’ve been there. Unfortunately though with IVF treatment unless you’re lucky and it works first time you’ll need to get used to waiting. People don’t understand so just ignore them.

That said I do wish the funding was fair, we could easily afforded to fund our treatments between ourselves and parents. Others aren’t that lucky so I definitely think it should be means tested if we are going to offer funding for it.

I personally believe the NHS should only be providing treatment that is clinically required (including screening for various things)

But you can still have tact, I don’t agree with the NHS providing fertility treatment, but I wouldn’t say that to someone who was having fertility treatment on the NHS

Really good post.

I'm so sorry. Everyone has opinions on this , it's normal but you are not being unreasonable with being annoyed with them! I can't imagine your disappointment. I am wishing the best for you. I believe your life will work out for the best for you ❤️

Used to really do my head in when I was ttc driving past the maternity unit of my local hospital and seeing pregnant women outside smoking.

I'm pretty certain that fertility levels do decline with age, certainly for women. When I had my own testing, I was told that my hormone levels were that of a woman some 20 years older, and my eggs were of a poor quality. I was also told the general chance of success was about 20% which increased slightly to about 25% using ICSI.

I'm also fairly sure that all of the things people are prattling on about - poor diet, smoking, drinking, drugs, sedentary lifestyles etc - are often touted as things which have a negative impact on fertility.

I had to have an life-saving total hysterectomy at 33, which meant that I went from fertile to IVF-not-even-an-option in a matter of a week. It's hard to put it into words. What I would say is that I wish that I could give someone else my "goes". What I think the NHS should or shouldn't cover is besides the point. I've been there, and if I could give you my IVF card to stamp on my behalf, I absolutely would.

YANBU - Once you get beyond life-saving treatments, most medical procedures are about improving quality of life and I simply don't think it's possible to make blanket pronouncements that one life-improving procedure is more valid than another. There may be arguments on an individual basis that person X's procedure should take priority over person Y's IVF, but trying to make the issue black and white is never going to work.

Whoever mentioned gastric band surgery - its a cost saver for the NHS as very overweight people are either very unhealthy people or are ticking time bombs for diabetes and the like, which create issues for the NHS and undoubtedly require further resource.

As far as I'm aware, one cannot just rock up and demand a gastric band either.

As for age I started TTC at 29 and most people having NHS funded treatment are in their early to mid 30s, as it tends to be restricted or not available at all on the NHS if you’re over 38.

@SimonJT May I ask, was this down to infertility your decision to adopt? Or because of not wanting to increase population/give an unplanned child a loving home?

@Couchbettato great response and I agree with you. But I’m always kind of shocked that people need to be in a situation before they can understand it enough to at least have some empathy. It only takes opening our minds a little.

yes in a nutshell. The reason why healthy and fertile first time mothers (who are older) have fewer kids is not down to fertility problems but other social factors. They tend to have less time to space pregnancies for example, more likely to breastfeed past 6 months (which can impact ovulation), more likely to be wealthier with jobs that encourage them to be one / two and done, etc

That's funny. The only three people, including myself, to havz breastfed beyond 6 months are those having their baby before 23. I was the youngest and still breastfeed my 2.5 year old

This thread has shown there are some bloody heartless people out there

Exactly . Why on earth would OP need to see this when she feels shit already ?
Pain upon pain

What’s the value for her ? Nothing

80% of women in all age groups will conceive within 2 years naturally if they don’t have a health issue.

I met DH at 28. Was married and ttc by 29. And DH and I have never used contraception in our 30 year marriage. So I’m certainly not one of that 80%.

All this talk of age related infertility feels like victim blaming.

Yes, I have a little boy, he’s adopted.

@SimonJT do you have children?

Sorry about the response you’re getting OP, these threads always go this way. Come to the infertility board if you need support

Anyone with their own naturally conceived children who voted YABU is hugely selfish. It’s a horrible world view that only those with functioning reproductive systems or the very wealthy (as the majority of people could never afford multiple rounds of private IVF) are entitled to have children.

Thankfully NICE disagrees and recommends 3 rounds, though sadly this is not provided everywhere in the U.K.

As someone with a reproductive disease which causes crippling agony every month, whose condition deteriorates over time but cannot be properly treated until I either conceive or give up, the lack of ivf on the nhs and waiting until I could save up to go private would be both mentally and physically debilitating for me even more so than things already are after 3.5 years TTC.

I work and pay taxes and always have, I am content for those to be paid towards treating smokers who have lung cancer, obese people who have weight related health problems, drug users who need methadone, heavily processed meat eaters who have bowel cancer and many other things, despite the fact that I don’t smoke, I’m not obese, I don’t eat meat, I’m not a drug user. I can see the merit in healing even those who have harmed themselves through their lifestyle choices as everyone’s life and story is different, but I’m sad others can’t see the merit in healing me and others in my position.

Once again MN'ers it seems like we are all blaming women as to why they shouldn't have IVF, specifically that they have left it too late!
How about when the men have fertility issues, should IVF not be considered for the couple then? I mean we all know men can procreate until they die - Bernie Eccleston is 89 having his 4th now.

I personally believe the NHS should only be providing treatment that is clinically required (including screening for various things).

But you can still have tact, I don’t agree with the NHS providing fertility treatment, but I wouldn’t say that to someone who was having fertility treatment on the NHS.

Also some people don't meet their OH until after 30, they try and do the right thing of getting to know them for a couple of years, buy a house and then maybe marry - that could legitimately be 4years so because of someone meeting at 30 and trying for children at 34 they are delaying ttc? No of course not! We have it drilled in to us from sex Ed at school that by just holding hands you can get pregnant and unfortunately that is NOT the case. It is only when you start ttc you come across how it isn't as easy as you thought.

IVF should be available on the NHS, but I believe it should be means-tested. That way people with less money could have more goes

Because the poorer are more deserving of becoming parents?

Do you pay this to every conditions? If two people have a stroke, you treat the one with a lower income then? So in essence, make the nhs available only to the poorer?

You do realise that if that was the case, more medical.professionals, including most likely the best will go and work for private hospitals?

@ClareVH I’m unsure why you think means testing ivf is fair? No other treatment is means tested and nor should it be. As I said upthread, the nhs is not a charity that we have to go to cap in hand. We all pay for it. There are alternatives. Millionaires are as entitled to use it as anyone else; their tax and ni will have paid for it more than most. Exclude them and they will quickly wish to divert their tax and NI elsewhere and why wouldn’t they?

I think infertility deserves more funding compared to gastric band surgery when people are getting surgery for being overweight, when they can control what they eat, however people cannot control whether they are infertile or not 🙄 also if you've smoked 40 a day for 30years and get lung cancer, how much will you be costing the NHS for them to operate, chemo, radiotherapy, overnight stays etc. Same with alcoholics who end up with kidney failure. I mean these people in my opinion have done this to their body. Being infertile is NOT A CHOICE! And everyone commenting on healthcare in the US please do not get me started on that shit show. OP I'm not having IVF but if I had to pay more taxes to allow this to be on the NHS I would 100%!!!!
If we all paid £1 everytime we went to the GP, hosp etc the NHS would be in a much better position than it is in currently regarding finances and funding. So let's stop bashing people for wanting children. Because quite often they have spent their own money finding out through nutritionists, private blood tests, ovulation kits and then and only then has IVF become their last resort. It is a ridiculously high amount to pay and not everyone can afford it, so because you aren't financially well off you shouldnt have the opportunity to be parents? Right...

@Wolfgirrl I think you make a fair point - couples start ttc later in life. This means that they have less time to sort out problems if they occur (and this can take years) and the quality of eggs available is worse than in the teenage years. This doesn’t change my view on treatment. It’s a lazy assumption that these couples delayed because they fancied a holiday in the Maldives and a four bedroom house. Couples delay ttc for a host of legitimate and sensible reasons. I call it being responsible. My view is that it is unfair to ‘reward’ (ie provide treatments without question) irresponsible behaviours (risky sex, over eating, under exercising, drug taking, drinking to excess) and then ‘penalise’ responsible adults.

Some of these comments are so horrible and have absolutely no idea whatsoever about IVF because if you had to face the hell of IVF then you would not even question IVF on NHS.