To be annoyed at IVF comments

@JustAboutHoldingItIn OP never asked about adoption. She posted about IVF

"I have sympathy. But having a baby is not a right.

You are wrong. The right to a family life IS deemed a fundamental human right. "

Family life doesn't necessarily mean one with children. I don't have children but I have a family. My husband and I and our parents/siblings/nieces and nephews are our family. I believe there is too much fixation on the parent/child unit being the only family that matter. It isn't. There are also many comments on this thread that imply a woman without children isn't a real woman and can't possibly have a happy, fulfilling like. Maybe that's the issue that needs to be worked on. After all, the success rates for ivf are incredibly low, what do those women do when it fails?

For those saying it's not fair or their fault that they can't conceive naturally. Yes, that's true. But it's also not fair that thousands of people every week die early from many diseases through no fault of their own. That's life I'm afraid.

As a country we have limited money, we cannot fund everything. That's the hard truth and something has to give.

You’re entitled to three attempts at IVF on the NHS.

Some places don't allow 3 attempts do they? I'd heard some NHS areas only allow one or two. I don't think that's fair. It shouldn't be a postcode lottery.

*Yes adoption may be an option but not everyone can be approved or is it an easy process

Aibu to be angry ?*

Not at all, it is perfectly acceptable to be angry about something that so many people take for granted. I just wanted to pick up on the adoption stuff. I'm infertile and we chose to adopt rather than go through IVF. Biology didn't mean anything to me, but I accept that it does to many people.
Having been through the process I think adoption can be just as straight forward/heartbreaking/not straight forward as IVF. I don't think it is harder than IVF. In fact, most people on my adoption course were there after numerous rounds of IVF. Adoption can be incredibly straight forward (our friends were through the course and had children placed within 8months). Or it can be fraught with issues.

Obviously some people are not equipped to parent children who have come from "difficult" backgrounds but if that doesn't put you off don't let adoption pass you by.

Good luck on your journey, I know it is heartbreaking

If cuts have to be made, stop unnecessary "gender reassignment" surgery, and let IVF go ahead.

I'm infertile and don't think it should be covered. I live in a country where it isn't covered. We had enough money for IVF or adoption. We chose adoption.
I have met many couples with unexplained infertility. I have endometriosis. I have a disease. My infertility is a side effect of my disease but not a disease in itself. My multiple surgeries have been covered and each month I am confronted by the disease that continues to ravage my insides. My one and only biological baby was due tomorrow. I lost them 7 years ago. It took me 8 years to become a mom. It was awful. I was 26 when my dh and I started trying. But I still don't see my infertility as a disease. It kind of belittles those of us with actual reproductive diseases to call it that. I was not owed a child. I am so lucky to have a child now, but I was never owed one.

I am sorry you are suffering from infertility OP, I do
hope you manage to become a mom someday.

That being said I am also one of those who don’t think IVF should necessarily be offered. And I speak as someone who will be dependent on IVF to have her own family. I think there are enough people in the world as it is, and plenty of kids already born who need a mom that there is no need to finance people getting their own biological child. I think being able to have your own biological when you aren’t physiologically able to is a luxury. It isn’t necessarily fair that some can have them easily and others can’t but then life isn’t fair and I also think it’s nature’s way to self-regulate.

@thefishthatcouldwish it actually depends on what area and trust you fall under to how strict it is

Some of the comments on here are really awful.. Saying that if you can't conceive naturally it obviously means you arent meant to have children and it isn't meant to be. How afwul a comment and how dare you say my twins born from ivf arent meant to be... Also saying same sex couples shouldn't be entitled to ivf funded by the NHS. They aren't in Englad anyway which i personally think is disgusting. The fact people are being discriminated against due to their sexuality in this day and age is shocking and a new topic within itself so i won't even go there.

@Phineyj my friends in the know do say abroad is typically better, more likely to work and cheaper than the UK

but its OK to punish poor infertile women (and men) because they can't afford IVF?

I'm uncomfortable with this argument because raising a child is horrendously expensive - far more than £3k for a cycle of IVF - childcare alone per year costs more than that or the loss of wages if someone decides to be a stay at home parent

@Mittens030869 exactly, we can’t be lucky enough to marry our childhood sweetheart or first boyfriend

I think the argument for charging for maternity services is a fair one if following the ridiculous argument that you should only access IVF if you can afford it, and if not then tough; bar perhaps a waiver for those who find themselves pregnant due to horrendous situations. If you choose to have a child and are fortunate enough to not require intervention, then that's a choice, why should the NHS pay?

I definitely think it should be available on the NHS. For many people they don’t have enough spare cash to save 5k plus per cycle. Does that mean they should miss out on parenthood? I am fortunate enough to have been blessed with 3 children, all conceived without trouble and I really don’t think it’s fair to not offer some treatment on the NHS.

@OneForMeToo but its OK to punish poor infertile women (and men) because they can't afford IVF?

*”The problem is that infertility is not a disease, it can be caused by disease, can be congenital but mostly it's due to the natural aging process.”

“I was 29 when I first started ttc. I really don't think I left it too late.”*

Yes, there’s a suggestion that it’s our fault for leaving it too late, ignoring the fact that a lot of young women are also diagnosed with unexplained infertility. I was 26 when I started trying...

@ksf5555xxx think about what you are saying.
Is IVF only to benefit women? Or is it to benefit a couple, a big majority of these couples will be made up by a woman and a man? So you are being more sexist, because you are insinuating only women want childreb

The most hurtful and thoughtless comments are often from people who easily had children. They just can’t put themselves in your position. They have no idea that infertility has actually been compared to having a terrible illness, in the distress that it causes. It may not be a human right, but having a child is, to most people, fundamental to life. Those that casually say ‘have you thought of adopting’ again have absolutely no idea. Don’t waste your breath, go to a fertility site.

I think the NHS should provide clear evidence based information to all those in this situation, determine the most effective treatments and then use its considerable buying power to provide them at cost price. I reckon you could get the cost per cycle down a lot that way. It could be means tested. We went abroad for IVF. Even with another language and health system, the quality of care and information was so much better and it was so cheap even allowing for the travel. We just couldn't stand the muddle, delay and judgement here.

But what I propose will never happen because infertility carries a stigma that other conditions don't. That's why these threads go the way they do.

I'm sorry, OP. I hope you can get back on track soonish.

Britain invented IVF. These threads are so depressing.

The problem is that infertility is not a disease, it can be caused by disease, can be congenital but mostly it's due to the natural aging process.

I was 29 when I first started ttc. I really don't think I left it too late.

I was 33 when I started trying to conceive with my DH, we didn't meet until I was 32 so I didn't put it of for any reason other than I hadn't met the man I wanted a family with. And 33 is pretty average these days.

I'll never know whether my childhood SA and a teenage pregnancy (my baby died soon after birth) played a part in making me infertile. My DH and I chose to adopt instead, which was absolutely the right decision for us.

@formerbabe it was more me playing devils advocate, than genuinely believing that is the case. I’m always curious how far peoples beliefs extend to -usually to the point it’s convenient from my experience

That sounds very very bitter. If the nhs won’t pay for me to get pregnant women who get pregnant should pay the price for maternity healthcare.

A women who’s raped doesn’t choose to get pregnant and you’d want her to pay for her care all because the nhs say wouldn’t pay for ivf? You’d risk two lives for a possible of creating one. Disgusting really.

It’s not that poor pregnant women’s fault you cannot conceive but you would punish her to make you feel what exactly?

Well said @Halo1234

How dare people suggest that infertility isn't a disease. It's the cruellest disease out there

No it's not. There are many diseases which are far crueller. Please don't put not having a biological child in the same bracket as dying a long, drawn out, painful death.