To be annoyed at IVF comments

Hi OP

I think wanting a chid is such a natural instinct that I fail to see how people can be so insensitive, saying it is not a necessity and that the NHS shouldn’t fund it.

I find that so sad that other women, who have children themselves can be do dismissive of the biological urge.

I think you could argue the case for what the NHS should/shouldn’t spend money on with just about any treatment they offer.

Those that smoke, drink in excess and overweight etc... where did you draw the line?

I can’t imagine the torture of wanting a baby so much then finding out you can’t have one without intervention. I can only imagine the pain and grief it would cause. The mental heath implications I’m sure are huge for many women, so I absolutely think NHS should fund it.

I’d much prefer to see it go toward helping an infertile couple than many other things it’s wasted on....

I completely agree OP. Infertility is not a disease, correct, but it still is a «malfunction» of the body that can be helped by medicine.
The NHS is not limited to diseases, it helps with cosmetic issues, speech delays, autism, birth control... - note, I am not saying these are less worthy to be under NHS remit, just that they are also not diseases but that their inclusion is less controversial for some reason.

for you, @Leighhalfpennysthigh. I'm so sorry for your loss. And thank you for your reply.

I am generally quite emotionally stable and I am lucky enough to have the support of my husband and other family and friends. I've never suffered from depression or had any serious mental health issues, but since my third and now fourth miscarriages I've felt what it's like to be in a really dark place, and I feel really scared by the obstacles we still have to overcome in our attempts to have a child.

I feel like I have had a taste of the despair and hopelessness that many other people must have to deal with every day of their lives and it is truly awful. I will look into getting some counselling.

I'm so sorry again about your husband.

@Leighhalfpennysthigh

I’m so sorry for your loss

@DellAmorenonsisa
Really? You're comparing this to mental health issues? You do know that mental health resources are woefully underfunded and that often people have to go without because they can't afford service privately. You also realise that infertility issues can fuel mental health problems don't you?

How ignorant

@Linning bully for you that you can afford it. I can too (have had 7 cycles, planning more). That doesn't mean I can't empathise with couples who cannot afford it and will never be able to. If someone told you you couldn't have ANY treatment you'd be as gutted and miserable as any one of those folk for whom £6k a pop is a crazy amount of money.

People have killed themselves due to infertility. And I'm starting to understand how someone could get to that point

Please try and get help. I lost my husband this way after four failed IVF attempts. Infertility and the consequences long term are horrendous for a lot of people. It took me a decade to find some meaning and a glimpse of happiness in my life after my husband died.

There is so much judgement on here about who is and isn't worthy enough to use the NHS. Luckily for everyone, the NHS does not judge and luckily for all of us imperfect human beings mumsnetters are not in charge of deciding which treatments should be funded. The NHS works on evidence based medicine and the guidelines developed by NICE are the result of a lot of research into the effectiveness of a particular treatment. That's proper research not the MN gold standard half an hour on google.

What has become apparent during this crisis is that there is a magic money tree when it suits the purpose of the government. So instead of sitting on here botching about who is and isn't worthy of treatment, maybe people should start lobbying for a sustained and real increase in NHS funding so it can continue to treat everyone.

I can conceive naturally but have no issue with NHS IVF. Seeing the joy a baby brings, I am more than happy for my tax money to be spent on IVF for those who need it. I really feel for anybody struggling with infertility, it must cause such heartache.

For those against IVF for overpopulation reasons, how would you feel if the government brought in a 2 child rule and restricted fertile couples as well? I suspect there would be outrage.

I wouldn’t begrudge you a penny op. I hope the clinics start back up soon.

But at the time it felt like they were saying that because I was infertile it was my duty to adopt. Just how I felt

I confess that so did I! Especially my SIL, who at that point had 4 DC (she now has 5!), who didn't approve of IVF because of the 'spare embryos'. And then I went through the adoption process and the social workers questioned me on whether I'd come to terms with not having any bio DC (quite rightly).

It's for every person going through infertility to decide the right path for them. No one should give anyone the idea that it's their 'duty' to adopt. It's such a tough choice to adopt that you really need to know that it's the right thing for you.

No because once a woman becomes pregnant naturally, that situation exists and needs dealing with.

What a nonsensical argument. There are options other than progressing to a live birth... it’s not inevitable! Or, is it just women who are both infertile and poor that should ‘miss out’? Besides, once a women is infertile that situation exists and needs dealing with, so what’s the difference?

It isn’t the job of infertile couples to provide a home for children who have a plan for adoption. I say this as a woman who never tried for biological children but adopted 2. Adopting children is (often) nothing like parenting birth children. Not everyone is suitable, or indeed capable.

I firmly believe that if you feel ‘having children isn’t a right’ (and therefore IVF should be privately funded) then you’re a hypocrite if you don’t believe all maternity services should be privately funded. No one is forced to give birth.

The NHS is not there to only provide life saving treatment. Having children may not be a right... but trying for them is.

Finally, for those bemoaning the cost...

Cost of IVF to the NHS annually = £68m

Cost to the NHS, annually, of missed GP appointments = £216m

but then life isn’t fair and I also think it’s nature’s way to self-regulate

What a load of bollocks.

If that were true then nature would make sure all the people who are in good health and have a stable living situation were nice and fertile and make drug addicts and people living in war zones infertile. It doesn't work like that.

To all those who say that it's a want and not a need...

Would you deny a deaf person treatment if that treatment would restore their hearing? Would you say "Well, you can see, can't you? There's people far worse off than you. If you want treatment, then you'll have to go private."

Would you tell a blind person to suck it up, and it's tough shit, because you've got other senses, you'll have to make do with those?

Would you tell a person with the use of only one hand that the can't have physiotherapy because they've got one hand that works, so go away and stop whingeing?

Thought not.

I agree with PP - I don't think the NHS should provide IVF. However, I wouldn't say that to someone's face if I actually knew them.

Their not there!

I agree it’s awful that private health insurance, which I have, doesn’t cover ivf. As for adoption, I think it’s a completely separate issue to ivf. When I was going through it I really resented people constantly asking about adoption. I felt it was inappropriate and frankly none of there business. I had looked into it extensively, and I’m still interested in that route. But at the time it felt like they were saying that because I was infertile it was my duty to adopt. Just how I felt.

but then life isn’t fair and I also think it’s nature’s way to self-regulate.

Childhood cancer and cystic fibrosis is also an example of nature’s self-regulation, but quite rightly we go to great lengths to ensure these children have the best chance of survival. Don’t be ridiculous.

@Viviennemary

Actually in the USA most insurances cover it - and often its unlimited. - I'm a member of lots of infertility groups and so many women in the USA have 10+ rounds of IVF

I don't think the NHS should provide free IVF. But wouldn't say that to a person who was having that treatment. If there was enough funding for treatment of ill people then fine. But there isn't. I bet health insurance in the US doesn't cover IVF.

@WotnoPasta

I agree - but the British are precious about their NHS. it should be stripped back to what it was originally designed to provide. Everything else should be covered by work place healthcare insurance which should be expanded to cover infertility like it is in the USA (it's ridiculous that it isn't here). Those who are disabled or genuinely out of work (not the long term can't be arsed to work) should have some kind of healthcare assistance. Perhaps if people had to pay a contribution they would think twice about wasting NHS time and resources

I totally understand. I am now 46 and reached the end of the road for fertility treatments, nothing worked. So we are childless but not by choice. It is soul destroying. I am constantly depressed at the thought of the loneliness we will experience in old age. Having children is one thing. Having grandchildren is another added bonus. We will have neither.

I’m so sorry it’s on hold. I hate to say it but that’s socialized medicine for you and I’m so glad I’m not in the UK anymore where someone who doesn’t know one bit of my anguish and pain decides whether there is enough money or whether I am important enough to have IVF or not. Here on the US it’s covered by the insurance that my employer provides at no cost to me. And I pay lower taxes.

Adoption can work really well. I wouldn't e without my 2 DDs of 11 and 8. But you do need to work through your disappointment at not being able to conceive your own biological baby, because social workers will ask you about that. Having said that. I went through therapy because
It was a hoop I had to go through and it really helped me.

But what I did find was that the biological stuff didn't matter in the end, I couldn't have loved my DDs any more if I'd given birth to them myself. Yes DD1 in particular has SEN (bearing aids and a weak right eye included in this) and adoption related attachment issues, but you don't have to deal with these from the first and you have plenty of time to adjust.

But it wasn't a decision I could cone to quickly. I didn't appreciate people saying to me 'You could always adopt' at the time when I was going through infertility. It does take time to come to that decision.

@wishing

I agree with you that society has a fixation on certain things - pregnancy in particular - that a woman is only validated if she experiences pregnancy. Hence the massive rise in donor egg babies which I do think should be massively more restricted than it is or not available all together. Just because we can do something doesn't mean we should

Isn't it funny all these posts arguing that IVF shouldn't be available on the NHS have NO issue with Viagra on the NHS.

Apparently having a baby isn't a right but having an erection is?! How morally foul.

We had ivf due to DHs low sperm count. This was a side effect of a hereditary disease he has.
It saved me mentally. Infertility nearly broke me.

Honestly if we are going to pick and choose what we fund then why don’t we not fund all the fucking time wasters first?
My SIL goes to the doctor when she has a COLD. Why?, because she can. She likes the attention. She almost boasts about it. I bet over the years she’s cost the NHS way more than me.