To think the use of prostitutes just isn't that big a deal?

@NearlyGranny it wasn't meant as an insult or to be pervy

I was merely trying to illustrate the imbalance of power and highlight that the word 'choice' is misleading where there is money involved.

I was trying to come up with an example where a regular woman might feel compelled or tempted to go beyond their usual boundaries /moral code in the face of money.

If you could relate to sleeping with or feeling tempted to sleep with someone you didn't want to for millions of pounds then i feel it puts you in the shoes of a prostitute only the rewards aren't so high.

why don't you try utilise the internet and figure that out for yourself, you don't need me to hold your hand through a hypothetical situation for which you've given abseloutley no context or backstory.

This is your theory, that there are other options and prostitution is a choice. You can’t back it up, because you know you’re wrong. I don’t have to ‘utilise the internet’ because there are no other options.

Prove me wrong by listing these other options. You can’t.

And a lot of ex-offender schemes are aimed at men. I’ve volunteered with ex-offenders in these kind of schemes and never once came across a woman. They were mainly all re-trained in construction, joinery, as electricians etc. In reality there are very few equal opportunities for women with a criminal background. Let alone women who are single parents needing to work around school hours.

What I noticed about the prostitutes the Ipswich serial killer murdered is that,in addition to being beautiful young women, they were all apparently drug addicts.

I thought about that jokey t-shirt slogan "alcohol - helping ugly people have sex since .." and that there could be a prostitution version;

"Heroine - helping unattractive older men have sex with beautiful young women since 1970".

There might be some truly uncoerced, "neutral" prostitution but in middle of all the trafficking, deprivation, addictions, abuse, mental illness, coercion and exploitation .... It seems minor.

Okay, I see where you're coming from, OP. I wouldn't have understood it myself if I hadn't got involved in a project helping trafficking victims.

OP you keep repeating that there is help out there, and other ways to get by, and other choices, yet you refuse to say what any of these are. I’m guessing that’s because you can’t tell us, and you don’t know the answers. You’ve learnt you were misguided in some of your thinking, do you think you may have this wrong too? Because not one other person has come up with any of these things, and there’s some very knowledgeable people on this thread.

Hihothedairyo - thank you for taking our opinions and personal stories on board.
It can’t be easy, reading all these replies.
Well done to you for not just abandoning the thread.

If both parties are truly consenting - I have no issue at all with it.

You think being paid for consent is "truly consenting"?

If a prostitute was willing and wanted to give her consent then why does she have to be paid money?

TheDailyCarbuncle I wouldn't pay someone for sex. But other people might pay in that situation. I really am finding it difficult to decide what I think about it. Sex therapist, physiotherapist or counselor feel the same to me in those circumstances. But how do you ensure that the therapist isn't exploited?
I think it's very naive to think that prostitutes enjoy their job. It's acting. Most prostitutes are vulnerable. Most prostitutes have been abused, or need money for drugs or to feed their dcs... they are not in a position of power. The act of giving money, is buying someone, but if I pay a psychiatrist for an hour of their time it isn't different, but it is different at the same time. The psychiatrist is in a position of control, whereas the prostitute isn't. How is that? Is it because of the physical part or the fact they are exploited to begin with? Also if prostitutes were funded for mental health for disabled people, would they be safer? I remember a documentary years ago where people with sexual problems were taught how to have sex by having sex with therapists, men and women, referred by a doctor. Is there and interview process that ensures that the therapist isn't trafficked or exploited?

There is help out there if people look for it, there are other ways to get by, if you want it enough.

Where is this “help”?

I’ll say it again. A woman with no education and a DBS that isn’t clean...she’s got kids to feed and a roof to keep over her head, no savings, no family support (like many prostitutes she’s grown up in the care system or had to leave home at a young age because she was being abused). You can’t just rock up to the Job Centre and get Universal Credit no problem. It’s going to take 6 weeks. She’s already known to food banks and can’t just rock up there whenever she feels like it. She has rent and bills to pay. She’s qualified for nothing.

Give me examples of all of the help that’s available to every woman in this position.

What EXACTLY are these other options that can happen overnight and wave a magic wand so that she suddenly gets a job without qualifications, with a criminal record. Or this magic money tree of benefits that somehow appears?

I think even if it was possible to regulate to the point people had a certificate to show they weren't coerced, trafficked or anything of that description, consent and money just isn't a concept that I can accept

I know you've said that, OP. But as other posters and I have said on numerous occasions, how would the punter know that the woman they're having sex with us there voluntarily. I can't imagine that they will ask, and even if they did ask, the woman is hardly going to tell him if she is there against her will. She'd be too terrified.

It's not sex and it's not work. It's abuse and organised crime.

If both parties are truly consenting - I have no issue at all with it. I have a friend who is a sex worker, and a friend who buys the services of sex workers (£300 per hr!), though they apprently do not know each other. I assume they would not tell me if they did!! They are both very happy with their choices.

There is help out there if people look for it, there are other ways to get by, if you want it enough.

For the third time: what are these other ways?

I don't think paying for consent is moral.

back alley STI type
I beg your pardon??

As you say, OP, your friend "uses" prostitutes. Does your OH use you when I'm the mood? Like a Kleenex? Or have you got something less transactional going on?

I know what you are saying OP. I feel like I would be more likely to go on the rob if I was really desperate-and benefit sanctions can make people really desperate.
But you can't look at the "choice" of prostitution as one made in a neutral way. What I mean is, say you are in a desperate situation and need to feed your kids. You are much more likely to sell your body if you have already experienced the dehumanising effects of abuse, or have been used by men from an early age. Very few grown up women who have never tried prostitution before would choose that UNLESS they have been "primed" already by their life experiences. Prostitution is merely a continuation of abuse. I wouldn't have said that in my 20s btw, but older and wiser I can see the bigger picture.
And actually, most prostitutes have been doing it off an in since their early teens and NEVER made an informed grown up choice.

I had a friend who was a working girl. She did what she did because it suited her - her other options were things like cleaning or checkout jobs as she had no qualifications. She was quite happy with doing it and set her own hours and expectations. She wasnt a back alley STI type though so maybe that is different. She just saw it as providing a service just like any other service industry.

I agree. If both parties are consenting I don't have a problem with it.

And these Central Asian trafficking victims don't have a choice, OP. When they're freed and go back home, they're shamed by their communities and thus the only work available is, hardly surprisingly, prostitution. That's what the project I'm involved with is about, training women from those communities to help these women learn a trade so they don't have to sell their bodies.