To be convinced this isn't autism

@Confusedmum1511 Know that it’s not your fault and your DS doesn’t enjoy hurting you. Whether he has ASD or not, (and I would think he easily could have from how you describe him) the assessment won’t change him. An ASD do isn’t a label, it’s a gateway to access intervention. It isn’t a magic bullet either. There isn’t a lot provided these days, but in some cases having the DX helps. Good luck in your journey. It can get a lot better with time, though there may be more bumps in the road to come.

My DS2 is 20 now, he was DXed at 3 (which is very young to be DXed, he was lucky.) Life has taken a different path for me, it takes time to grieve for the child you ‘should have had’ and to accept that the child you do have isn’t NT. You’ll get through it. MN SN was an amazing and supportive resource for me in the earlier days, I hope it can be for you as well, whatever DX or not that your DS gets.

DS has just had High Functioning Autism identifed at 8-9. I suspected it, and that his previous diagnoses of dyslexia and dyspraxia weren't the full story, but because he does present quite convincingly as normal much of the time (particularly in school) I was worried that it wouldn't be seen.

He's fortunate that the local school is cosy enough to suit him, and he's in a delightful class where his encyclopaedic knowledge is respected. That the broad and fairly relaxed uniform does not offend his sensory sensibilities.

I get the flack from the masking out of school. Over time I've learned the triggers, but at 5 I was left wondering why my intelligent, articulate (albeit with a history of SALT) child would have aggressive toddler tantrums. It was the 4 hour meltdown starting with him attacking me in the street on the way home during SATs when I began to accept that there was enough out of sync with "normal" and after a horrid summer, went to the GP.

Hindsight explains so much about his behaviour from toddlerhood on.

He has friends (but gets "lost" in unstructured groups"), makes eye contact (although it may drift to something/one safe). He is funny and has a suprisingly dry sense of humour because he is analytical. He can be very empathetic because he is observant but this is not consistent. Around his 1st birthday, a friend was injured in an accident and he was instictively so gentle with her (a contrast to biting his brother in rage!)

There are many traits to the autism spectrum. The extent of them will vary. Some will be more prevelent than others. Some can be masked then explode out when safe after a stressful situation. Some phases may be more out of sync with their peers, some may be more stable as they've manually learned to adjust... until there's a change to react to. Every autistic or ND person is a unique individual as are NT people.

It is absolutely worth investigating why your child's behaviour is different to "normal" Knowing that your shin is bruised because your child is not coping and you're their safe space is very different to thinking that they are chosing to be bad and violent. It means you can defuse them with calm and love (not necessarily consequence free when they are functioning again) rather than antagonising them with anger and punishment. It means that school have better means to put support systems in place, and make more appropriate choices of school. Knowledge is power, and while it can't solve everything, it helps you to manage it better which is good for everyone.

Something as well that might help you is joining PDA Facebook groups because they show you lots about the daily struggle/ proud moments etc about life with a child who has high functioning autism.

People don’t understand this but the more high functioning you are the harder your life is in many ways because although you find it extremely taxing reading people, being socially acceptable etc people expect so much of you and some become aware that they’re different or aren’t quite ‘getting it’ and can become depressed and more anxious.

I don't think you can rule out ASD based on what you have said at all. Definitely go for the assessments!

Utter rubbish that “most children” are diagnosed at age 2 or 3 and that 5 is late for a diagnosis. What about the many many children whose ASD traits show later on than age 2 or 3?

My DS1 has been under NICU/paeds/children’s services since the day he was born due to being born extremely prematurely. He clearly had additional needs but only really showed signs of ASD from about age 6, and didn’t get a diagnosis until he was 9 and a half in spite of seeing various professionals every six months. His ASD is at the more ‘severe’ end of the spectrum and our LA funds his place at a specialist ASD independent school.

I have just googled the average age for an ASD diagnosis in the UK and a quick google says age 5. I’m surprised it’s that young actually, given that I know of so many children and young adults who were diagnosed much later.

OP you really should go through with the assessment. Whatever the outcome, going through the process can only be advantageous to him.

ASD is diagnosed by a medically trained physician.
You say that he is prone to physical meltdowns. As he gets older , they may get worse and you may well need support. Best to get this diagnosed as soon as possible so that you and his school can access support .
You’ll be able to access various support services that can help your family to help him.
His “ horrendously violent “ meltdowns aren’t going to go away and you/school will need support for these.

DD is within spectrum & a mature young woman who works & lives nearly (!) completely independently of us (with support & the internet & phone support as well as physical when required & a lot of lists!!!)

I’d go for the assessment. If he’s not autistic, he probably won’t get a diagnosis.

FWIW, my 11 year old ticks many boxes on both your for and against lists. He’s most definitely autistic. That doesn’t mean your son is, but I wouldn’t rule it out just on those things.

If he is autistic he won’t become any less so just because he doesn’t have a diagnosis. I appreciate your exhaustion with the system and I hate to tell you it doesn’t actually get any better IME anyway, but it’s hard to get help, do anything that might make it easier.

But unless you get the assessment you won’t know, surely that’s obvious. It’s not easy to get assessed either so don’t cancel.

My high functioning ASD child knows their name and has conversations. They’re also really bright. It’s a spectrum. It’s not a one size fits all.

I am in a very similar position to you right now and the only thing I’ll say is that any potential diagnosis is his and not yours. I’m not sure you have the right to deny him something that may actually have a positive effect on his life, particularly where behaviour expectation and management at school is concerned

Nothing you have said rules out autism. It’s a spectrum and every child with will have a different range of traits.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pathological_demand_avoidance please read this - about PDA which may describe the antisocial aspects of ds behaviour - there are other co-morbid diagnosis as others have mentioned - op -you aren't an expert but the people you are going to see are & they can recognise other diagnosis or behavioural problems - what you should do is listen & ask others who deal with your dc about his behaviour - how is he with classmates - for instance -does he share, does he play with them, can he take turns? not every dc(or adult) with asd conforms to every symptom. Make notes of thing he does that concerns you even if you don't connect them with asd. One of my big bugbears is eye contact - it is not an essential part of a diagnosis. As for being social - its whether it conforms to his peer group behaviour & stage of development. & as most people can tell you the difference widens as the child matures & their peer develops into adolescence - when a mild difference changes into an abyss. But - with support & social education they can learn which is why it is so important to get the help HE will need (please note the capitals!!!) & if you get him help it will help you , both in understanding him & helping him & not feeling like you aren't being a good parent. To many times as parents of dc with these kind of issues we are made to feel failures - which we aren't - so please go along to the assessment for both your sakes.

My son makes eye contact and is very sociable. He also had meltdowns that had me hiding behind a baby gate until they stopped. You need the ADOS done by a developmental paediatrician. The NHS pathway to a diagnosis for high functioning is APPALLING and leaves many families in limbo hell for years. Keep going. Get the ADOS done.

I often wonder if my 13 year old is on the spectrum. At home he is a pain he annoys his siblings and generally doesn’t listen. At school though he’s the perfect child always good in class and has lots of friends! I just don’t understand how he can be so Jekyll and Hyde like! I know the teachers won’t understand as he’s so good, and I know he won’t go the the GP. He is a very difficult child and it’s exhausting sometimes.

Check out PDA (Pathological Demand Avoidance)
Kids with PDA are not typical in that they are more sociable and make eye contact. My DSD’s ASD wasn’t diagnosed until she was 11 because she was an expert “masker” in primary school but as soon as she got to secondary, her anxiety rocketed and we sought a private psychiatrist who diagnosed her straight away with ASD and PDA.
We are now (since diagnosis) much more well informed about providing DSD with an environment that supports her (low demand)
Good luck

You’ve nothing to lose by continuing with the assessments. I know it’s exhausting I’ve been there with my own children but it’s better to have that diagnosis if there’s something to diagnose than pretend that there’s no issues (and it sounds like there’s some at least).

Do the assessment
Overly sociable is another side of the spectrum.
If it s the ADOS assessment it s very useful

I mean the following with the utmost respect and huge amounts of sympathy.
It is not your decision to go for assessments, or not. You are an ambassador for your son. He needs answers, you need answers and these type of assessments bring you one step closer to answers. The assessment/diagnosis part is horrendous. The worst. It can take years of your life and will feel like years off your life. If your son is autistic, he is autistic - always has been, always will be. The "label" will unlock the door, it will explain why he is a square peg in a round hole. Things will click into place. You can really get behind the behaviours; understand his world and enter it with a whole new knowledge and understanding. It is worth it's weight in gold.
Your list in your opening message is so glaringly familiar to me - it describes my son who was diagnosed at 7 (having been through the ringer and on the conveyor belt where well-meaning professionals poke and prod and ask and refer) with Aspergers Syndrome (sorry, old school here, still calling it Aspies and not ASD). It was a devastation I cannot put into words. Then the recovery began. I say recovery, because it just is. It fits. You get an explanation and it all falls into place. You get help, you (should ) get support. Do not under-estimate the importance of extra time allocated in exams; scribes; advocates; wonderful professionals who will champion your boy.
My son is 19 today. I have never been prouder. He is actually totally OK and he is glad he has Aspergers Syndrome. I know that sounds bizarre and if you had said that would happen when he was 7, I'd have wanted to slap you. We laugh and we cry about the past. It was one horrendous journey and there were times that I felt absolute despair; carting him out of shops; leaving restaurants with only a spoonful of food in our mouths, never going to cinemas, parties or being invited to anything, let alone sleepovers. No friends, no companionship. Unbuttoning his sisters coat when we explained delicately we weren't going to the park after all. I could write a bloody book.
I mean this with all my heart - go for the assessments. Your sons future depends on it. All strength to you OP. You've got this

Getting the assessments and doing autism related things wont do any harm. Not doing them might. For me it's a no brainer

The diagnosis or lack of it will not in itself change your child.

It might enable you to access services that support as needed.

My DS1 was diagnoed at about 3 and we were very wary of it. My DH told the ed psych 'I don't want him labelled'. The ed psych said if he has a diagnosis or not he will still be labelled in some way as he was so out of step with others. Why put our heads in the sand? Why not use it to empower ourselves?

That worked for me.

People doing assessment are working in this field every working day, whole day, they studied it for years. Why not to take advantage of their knowledge, their expertise?

My son was very autistic at 3, didn't speak, wanted to be a clock and was extremely hard to get off obsessions. He's 7 now and has levelled out so much. He has a diagnosis, but would come across as vee bright and shy rather than overtly autistic.

So it can get better. We worked alot of. Empathy skills and his temper is improving with firm boundaries and constant explanations. So, your son could be midly but he can also improve... I really wish somebody had told me that it can get easier as they grow. But I would still pursue the diagnosis if you feel you need to.

Autism is a huge spectrum. There are common misconceptions too. Not every child or adult with present the same way.

My son has autism. In many ways he doesn’t fit the bill. He’s always slept well, he makes short bursts of eye contact, he responds to his name usually, he is VERY sociable (often over friendly). He is also extremely affectionate. But he has big sensory issues, no sense of danger, communication difficulties (despite being sociable he is speech delayed), learning difficulties, needs routine and dislikes change. He also gets upset easily and meltdowns have become less frequent but they still happen. Hope this helps 😀

You've just described my son in your opening post. He was diagnosed with autism at 8 years.

I too had doubts, but as he's grown his differences are subtle but identifiable and interfere with his functioning. He is now an adult.

Luckily we had a good diagnostic core team. He was assessed thoroughly for about 12 months.

He still loves to play with language and it's idiosyncrasies.

He is the one who always needs a hug and asks me if I'm ok. There are glaring gaps in other social interaction but he's keen and appears sociable

You don't have to conform to all autistic characteristics to get a diagnosis. You do have to display three (Thinking back decades) key characteristics.

People who are autistic are all different, and have different abilities and disadvantages.

The saying goes 'if you know one person with autism, you know one person with autism'.

“It's that I think he won't receive an ASD diagnosis and then my 5 year old who bites me and laughs or is horrendously violent in a shop for no reason is doing it just because I haven't taught him right from wrong”

do you think it’s because you haven’t taught him?...

You do know most parents don’t have to teach their children not to bite them or be violent, right?... they’re just not doing those things, because they just don’t, not because they’re parented better.

If, they don’t see autism while assessing, no, they’ll not diagnose him with that, but they’ll refer him on to whatever service they think he would fit the diagnosis for.

If (and I doubt it is or you’d not be looking for help to start with) it was your parenting that was the issue, there are services that could support with that too.

Whatever the outcome is, you’ll have access to more support with his behaviour than you have now.