To think it’s socially acceptable in Britain to shout at children?

Sometimes people's frustration get the better of them. Perhaps the toddler in the parking lot has had 5 tantrums today. Perhaps the toddler kept them up all night and just wouldn't sleep.

Honestly kids can be jerks and sometimes parents are human beings who make mistakes and do things they probably shouldn't. Like shouting at their kids

Let me guess.

All these parents behaving like this are either looking for a lighter, too preoccupied with their phones, have sharpied on eyebrows and probably wear their pyjamas in Asda.

You sound really judgemental. A snappy tone is in no way comparable to prolonged shouting or screaming which is what your title implied.

You are judging parents based on a snapshot of what you see of their life so yes YABU.

If you have to ask your kids 15 times to put on their shoes you can imagine that someone who have had to do the same followed by the same amount of request for the coat, scarf, to get in the car, get off of the car, to stop running in the aisle of the supermarket, might be at the end of their tether at the moment you might happen to hear them raise their voice at their kids.

So many things happen behind close doors that might lead to the outburst you notice and chose to judge.

I work in childcare and used to be a teacher, I have definitely raised my voice before, sometimes it's what it takes for the kid to focus and take you seriously and get things done. I can guarantee you that most teacher raise their voice, in fact at school, I found more bullying coming from teachers than I ever did anyone else.

Teachers will not blink at telling you aren't good for much, or that your work was ''pathetic'' I even had a teacher of mine tell us our lack of intelligence was the reason there was a rise in Nazism in Europe (I am in my 20's so school isn't that far off for me). Hearing ''you are an embarrassment'' from a teacher was pretty common for a student to hear growing up (and I have moved a lot so been exposed to lots of schools and teachers), some would even bring up personal things to embarrass students in front of the whole classroom.

So no, teachers don't ''sweet talk'' kids into staying calm, from my experience they can be appalling and use bullying tactics or use the '' you can go to the headmaster's office, or i'll call your parents, or you will get suspended, or you wont go to recess'' to submit kids into listening.

As a teacher I never ever bullied a student and never ever would have talked down to them but I would have had no qualms raising my voice slightly had it been necessary. As you said yourself, if as a mother it takes you 15 times to get them to put their shoes on, imagine the chaos if we had to wait for each kid to be ready and do things when they saw fit, nothing would get done, they wouldn't learn anything and they would continuously disrupt other kids.

Sometimes being stern is what's work best and if that's the case well I won't judge. I judge way more the parents who enters a 30 minutes negotiation of '' Come on honey'' with their kid who don't want to put their shoes on, making everybody late.

Clearly not a parent yourself OP. Sometimes it’s the only thing that works. Try telling/explaining/ asking a child to do something ten times over in a stressful environment with other kids to keep an eye on, crowds to avoid, juggling a hundred tasks at the same time, judgemental people looking on (ie you) only to be ignored, kid getting more and more excitable/ naughty / pushing the boundaries more and more, putting themselves in danger even and see if you would maintain your lovely calm zen like state.

I save loudness for three things at work;

Imminent danger of severe harm to themselves.

Imminent danger of severe harm to others around them.

Imminent danger of severe harm to extremely expensive equipment.

For the rest, it's easier (on the kid, the passers by, my vocal chords) and more effective to speak firmly. Volume isn't necessary as much as depth and tone.

Or, to put it another way, why bark like an overexcited Spaniel when a Rottweiler's low growl is infinitely scarier?

No parents shouldn't shout. Or let kids eat sugar, or watch TV etc. Reality is occasionally people do shout. Some more than others. It's not necessary, I teach a class of 30 and never shout unless something dangerous is about to happen but a lot of people don't know how else to deal with it. Compulsory parenting classes would be a great idea.

@Squashpocket I'd argue that the more difficult a child is or the worse the behaviour, the more crucial it is to stay calm and in control.

Teachers manage behaviour of a whole class without shouting I didn't leave school long ago and teachers shouted at us loads. That was both primary and secondary. Primary we were screamed at and physically manhandled by a few teachers too.

I publicly shouted at my daughter once in front of some school mums. We'd sat in horrendous traffic to get to school for her to tell he she'd left her bag at home. It had her lunch in so I had to go back. It meant I missed my train on my way to my first day of a course. I was livid. She's 10 and had the cheek to blame me for her forgetting it. If someone had challenged me I'm not sure what I would have done, I was so angry at her

What @squashpocket said. Exactly. Kids have different characters, some much easier than others. Also, they fire each other up. So yeah, just one easygoing child, why would you ever shout at them? You could just explain calmly. But that doesn't generalize.

@shiny The point I was making is that Why do I have to ask you 15x to put on your shoes? Is to start a conversation with your child that is akin to 'what is wrong with you?'

It's asking them a question they probably don't know the answer to. It asks them to be introspective enough to know why they haven't met the standard. Why is this necessary? I think it's unkind and certainly not preferable to "Put your shoes on!" which is neither ranty nor sweary?.

YANBU. I can't abide parents who shout at their children or speak to them like shit. If someone did that to them, they'd be the first to cry abuse. Why then, is it acceptable to do that to a child, who is only learning? It's inexcusable and terrible parenting.

I say that as a mother and a teacher. If you can't parent without shrieking and shouting, you need to do some research into how to parent properly.

I wish it was more acceptable to challenge this kind of ‘parenting’, or at least for it not to be seen as normal.

You MUST be the perfect parent then. I so wish you’d have ‘challenged’ me when I shouted at my children. All you see is a snap shot of people’s lives. Find yourself a hobby is my advice and stop trying to make others YOUR perception of ‘the perfect parent’ 🙄

You judge when you have absolutely no idea how bad a day that parent has had, I try very hard not to raise my voice, but thre are times when I am at the end of my rope and I may snap, especially when you have sevral children with addtional needs.

‘Why do I have to ask you 15x to put on your shoes?’

See, I think that's a real kick in the teeth that speaks to something lacking in a child. It's too desperate a statement over something so trivial. "Put your shoes on" at a greater volume is more clear cut and less emotionally intense

Strangly enough before I get to the ranty stage of asking for the 15th time, I did actually start with "In 3 minutes, I need you to put your shoes on" with some reminders before a jaunty, polite, "can you put your shoes on please" then a more assertive "put your shoes on" then a few rounds of blunt "SHOES!". Being 6 and a dyspraxic/ autistic 9 year old means that they don't always respond to the initial polite request in a mature, immediate fashion. Sometimes I have to cut through the mental clutter of the internal/ external monologue. It sounds brusque, but sometimes it has to be, and I have my own emotions too, plus being 6 and 9 with some high functioning SNs does not exclude them from having to be in places at a certain time, behave in a certain way etc. Often they will co-operate before the command escalates, so it is worth starting with the nicest tones.

I may sometimes get brusque and impatient, but I have never sworn at them or used belittling language. I try very hard to focus on the behaviour not getting personal with the child.

It's possible to parent with calm authority and consistency

Clearly you haven't met my eldest.

Joking aside, my youngest is an amenable sort, who tends to do as he's told more or less. My eldest...knows his own mind

If I'd only had children like my youngest, I would have judged parents who shouted.

I don't judge now.

I do shout sometimes. If you listen carefully beforehand, I have usually politely made the request about ten times already. What do you do when you have asked politely, at their level, ten times already? Carry on being ignored?

I have worked with many people who have had the softly, softly, you can do no wrong style parenting, and the shouty, authoritarian style of parenting and the children's behaviour with both styles is often the same. It's about balance.

I’ve shouted and lost my temper. It’s a normal part of life. I have limits and I don’t think it’s a bad thing for kids to see that their parents are human. I’m not a computer.
If DH jumped on me, stood on my foot or hung off my watch for the millionth time after being told not to I’d shout at him too.
I do shout at DH sometimes and he me. Normal behaviour in this house.

I have to raise my voice at my toddler to distract him half the time so he doesn't throw a toy fire truck in the fire or pull the christmas tree down on top of himself or one of the many other things he does, but it doesn't scare him (my voice goes high pitched when I shout) so he usually turns around and laughs at me, as for putting him in the car, when he is trying to climb our or going stiff or whatever hes doing while I'm trying to strap him in, I'll ask him nicely a few times and then hes told in a stern voice to "stop and get in now or you're in massive trouble" he usually sits down and laughs then because he knows we're in a rush. I might raise my voice a bit or use a different tone but he never gets punished and he never gets upset at it. I distract him with a game of football in another room instead of punishment for whatever he does. He is the happiest little boy who is so full of energy but what people see on a bad day and start judging they don't understand that it's our way of knowing when something shouldn't be done, it's our way of boundaries and it does not affect him.

I think people’s responses on here proves you right.
Gos forbid a parent has patiences and/or tries to teach their children to be mindful of their actions...

Sorry but any parent who ‘has’ to do this in public is judged very heavily by me.
The only time shouting is acceptable is if the child has done something that put them in danger to shock them into realising the danger.

Nature not mature sorry!

@backdoormadness.
I’m with you.
I went on a school trip to the beach, the children were listening quietly to a mature person talk about all the creatures they might find. The child sitting next to me discovered a spider spinning a web next to her, she was excited and put her hand up, only to be told to not interrupt.
Oh the absolute irony
I think they way a lot of children are treated is largely responsible for the amount of mental health problems we see in teenagers and adults.