To think it’s socially acceptable in Britain to shout at children?

The only thing judged more harshly than a badly behaved child is a parent trying to set boundaries

This.

Yes mrstwiddle i lived in N America for years and never saw the level of casual, workaday, spiteful, humiliation of children that I do here. I’ve also lived in Mediterranean countries where people ‘shout’ by British standards a lot more in the course of normal conversation - but I haven’t seen the level of public contempt for children that I do here.

I bollock my kids for misbehaving.and because of that, it's rarely needed. I don't personally want to practice the style of parenting where in a shop, mummy bends down to little Tarquinius and validates his feelings of frustration at not being allowed more sweets and asks him in a gentle manner if he would mind awfully not kicking mummy's shins anymore. To which little Tarquinius replies "NO!" And sticks the boot in again.

Okay, that's a massive exaggeration. The kid in question was actually called Oliver. But yeah. It happened.

Ruaridh's mummy at school doesn't like to shout or manhandle her babykins either. It's why she ended up being stood at the school gates faux smiling and her face getting redder and redder while he refused to leave the playing field for half a damned hour after school was finished and everyone (but me waiting for guitar practice to finish) had left.

Mine get yelled at and my kids know if it's got to that level they done fucked up.

I live abroad now and whenever I go back to the U.K. I am shocked by the way some parents speak to their children, I don’t mean shouting at them when they’re being naughty, that’s to be expected, I mean the swearing and abuse that certain parents aim at their kids...it’s awful and i just don’t come across it in North America.

I saw something similar just the other day. I was walking down the high street and a mum, dad and daughter (about 3-4 yo) came out of the shop. They had bought the girl a colouring book which she was clutching onto with both hands. Shortly after, the little girl tripped on a loose cobble stone and fell to the ground with the new book flying across the pavement. The dad pulled her up by the neck of the coat and shouted at her that she needs to stop being naughty.

Luckily the mum was there to comfort her as the little girl had scraped her hands and even ripped a hole in her tights by the knee. I gave that man the meanest evil eye I could do and his facial expression changed from angry to embarrassed quite quickly.

I sometimes shout at my children. But only I’ve calmly and repeatedly asked them to do something and usually they can’t hear me because they’re giddy. The shouting is the only way to get them to hear. I’d be more than happy for anyone else to do the same with my children if needed.

When my kids were at junior school I did some parent helper mornings and I was shocked at how teachers shouted

But there are different kinds of shouting aren’t there? It’s not all the same.
I know the kind of shouting you mean OP, I’ve heard it, it’s a nasty belittling tone that makes the child feel totally hated, it’s just terrible. It can include name-calling, awful judgments and criticisms about the child , labelling them in certain ways, and putting them down, it is abusive.
But then there is the “would you PUT your shoes on NOW? I told you we have to go out, we can’t be late and I’ve asked you 10 times!”
To my mind, that second kind of shouting is a human being who gets impatient at times. I don’t see it as being as damaging, it’s not ideal but they’re not being cruel.
I think the content and the tone makes a huge difference.

To all those posters who think it's ok to shout at children, would you be happy if school staff spoke to your children in the same way?

YANBU. Of course everyone would shout if something dangerous was happening and they needed to ensure immediate attention but routine shouting or just talking aggressively to kids is definitely not great. I think partly it's a cultural thing - if you grew up that way you consider it normal. I also think some people just have poor emotional regulation - either because they have more stress in their lives or they are simply not good at remaining calm. It's clearly ridiculous to expect children to keep their cool when we can't model it ourselves.

Is it my imagination or is shouting a cultural norm in countries such as Italy and Spain. I see loads of loud guilt tripping verbal hand waving Portuguese etc. Warm and snuggly with little ones one minute, hands waving and shouting the next.

OP YANBU. These threads always make people so defensive (cue all the ‘I bet you haven’t got kids yet OP’ comments).

I know exactly what you’re talking about and it is a general disrespect of, and casual unkindness towards, kids.

And no I am not perfect and yes I have shouted at my kids but in the next moment I have apologised and explained why I lost my temper. Because otherwise when they shout at me or one another how on earth can I tell them with a straight face that it’s not okay to shout and that we can resolve our problems by talking through them?

Oh gosh, I shouted at my 5yo this morning. I did feel bad and did apologise to him once we were in the car. Sadly I'm a bit stressed out about our finances and I have a short fuse. He was also not listening and we were running late. I really am trying to shout less and be more relaxed. I know what to do but in the heat of the moment it's being able to stop my usual pattern and do something else.

I hate it OP; it's so aggressive and makes me flinch. My Mum was/is shouty and I hated it. DS is just a baby, but I'll always work hard to ensure that I talk to him kindly and without yelling wherever possible (and no, that's not code for not disciplining if necessary).

I frequently witness parents talking to their children like shit. There's a system to report it on at school. I even did one today.

It makes me extremely sad.

I've become afraid to discipline my children in public. I've noticed a difference in society's attitudes towards parents even between having my DC1 and DC3. The only thing judged more harshly than a badly behaved child is a parent trying to set boundaries.

Teachers can send misbehaving child out of the class to the head therefore passing the buck before they get to shouting point and also get to hand them over at 3pm.... parents cant do that.

I'm not perfect, I try not to shout but after asking said child to put their coat on for the 10th time in as many minutes I do snap at them. Theres a difference between child abuse and normal day to day challenges bringing up children. I dont smack mine, wont manhandle them unless they put themselves in dangerous situations. Yes I will be sharp and tell them straight if they continually dont do as they are asked /misbehave.

On the opposite end of the spectrum you have the parents who stand by ineffectually bleating “We only use gentle hands Hugo.”

Obviously shouting at anyone isn’t ideal but the crux of it is that children are terribly unreasonable and there’s no reasonable way to deal with them. I don’t agree with yelling is a good way to deal with them (although I confess that I occasionally snap and do). But I also don’t presume to judge people who take a different approach. The only good way to deal with children is to accept that they will often fall woefully short of the mark and persistently tell and show them how to do better. Obviously this isn’t always possible either because it isn’t possible or because parents simply loose patience.

There are varieties of shouting though, aren't there. I've shouted/raised my voice at mine on occasion when all other options have been exhausted. However the disdain/disgust/venom I hear from some parents makes me both sad and angry at times.

If you have children I imagine it’s one toddler aged one. I don’t shout at my children. I never have. Neither does DH. But I can certainly see why people do. They know how to get on every last nerve you’ve got and then push it just that bit further don’t they.

There’s a particular strain of really nasty, mean-spirited public humiliation of children that I have only ever seen in the UK. Some of the worst people I’ve known for this were a primary school headteacher and her arsehole of a husband who used to live across from me with their two brow-beaten children (who always seemed perfectly well behaved to me). Every morning you’d hear them shouting ‘get a fucking move on, you useless piece of shit’ - with no shame at all that everyone in the neighbourhood could hear them. To these people it was 100% normal and acceptable.

I actually think there is potentially more of a concern for a child that is too timid and never needs to be told twice! That could suggest they are scared of the caregiver to the point they are scared to put a foot out of line.

Everyone loses their shit at times. You might see the child being shouted out for not getting in the car the first time. The reality could be quite different and they’ve probably been told several times.

YANBU but I think it’s more acceptable amongst a certain type of person (I am sure I will get stuck for saying that).
I am not a British and bringing up my children in this country it’s been one of the most shocking things for me. I was never shouted at as a child and never came across adults shouting before I came here. In my home country it would be totally unacceptable and people would phone social services I think. I have never shouted at my children. It’s disrespectful and signals a loss of control. I behave like an adult.