To think it’s socially acceptable in Britain to shout at children?

That's awful but it would be no less shocking if she whispered that hello.

tumbleweed
The death stare 🤣

There are different types of shouting. The end of tether, “Just get in the car!” “Shoes. Feet. Now!” exasperation is understandable. But the other day I heard a woman really shout at her 4 year old, “Don’t just stand there like a fucking dickhead!” which was unbelievably shocking.

Not just parents, teachers are far worse.

A couple of months ago we were in Rome. Lots of school trips from various countries. Most were calm and well behaved (teachers that is!). We came across a couple of British school groups. The teachers were out of control - shouting really loudly so all around could hear, really laying in to some of the group, not just loud, but some pretty nasty things being said, both having a really, really long and out of control rant about trivialities by the sounds of it.

ivebeen sorry to hear about the photo of your Dad. Life with ASD can be a challenge and we all have our limits.

Heaven preserve us from the sanctimonious Perfect Parent.

If I've asked nicely more than once, asked firmly more than once and been ignored, then yes I will shout.

That is not being abusive or unkind.

I rarely raise my voice but I have snapped on occasion, and probably in public.

"Put your shoes" on may have been said x15 but not "Put your shoes on!" Because the op is morally opposed to shouting.

it really isn't acceptable to make a habit of shouting at your family members

If you see someone do it once, in a shop, how do you know they "make it a habit"? It might be the only time they snap.

That said, online shopping exists so why put yourself and the kids through doing a full blown supermarket shop? You can't avoid going in for a few things from time to time, but no way would I take small children with me if I had to do a full shop.

I'm also with the person who said a short shout is better than some sort of long winded psychological punishment where they "lose privileges" once they are home. Tell them (which yes, might be a raised voice) to stop whining and get on with life. And don't care what strangers think. You don't know them, let alone care about them, so why care a jot about what they think?

Big difference between that and the nasty swearing at kids you sometimes hear - which obviously isn't a one-off and is from a certain demographic. (yes call me a snob but it's true - I never hear someone with a RP accent telling their kids to f-ing stop whining).

it's unkind and certainly not preferable to "Put your shoes on!" which is neither ranty nor sweary?

I think the point is that 'put your shoes on' had already been said 15+ times and been ineffective.

I popped into the shop before it closed at 8:30 - it was dead (literally nobody around). She didn’t just snap - you can tell the difference if somebody snaps in life. She just used a nasty tone,

She was still shopping at 8.30pm with a toddler. She was probably exhausted. You have no idea what has gone on in rest of her day

...house with a loud adult...

Not a how and a short person!

Honestly, if I had to chose to live in a how with a short adult or one who whispered snotty remarks to induce guilt or shame to make me behave the way they wished ... "Hey Baguette, how come we are always waiting for you to put your shoes on, do you have a problem, I think you have a problem, can you see how sad it makes me having to wait for you to ready - I'm soooo sad " I'd take the one who is louder and less manipulative, every day.

I'm convinced by 2 are partially deaf. They only respond to a good shout.

Also, we're Canadian so our "tone" of voice is generally LOUD.

But hey, I live in the Middle East were people shout at each other in anger, happiness, sadness, boredom....

What a judgy load of crap. I've lived abroard and experienced plenty of other cultures. Guess what, most of them smack their kids, even if not in public. So seeing as that's socially unacceptable here (and wrong, obvs) shouting is what we've got.

I don’t shout as I don’t really need to. Not that I’m smug, just because we are past the toddler phase of wandering into roads and absolute frustration etc and they’re pretty good now. When they were younger I probably shouted a few times when we were for example trying to leave the house on time in the morning and other methods of cajoling them hadn’t worked. Then they did listen as it was a shock to them for me to raise my voice. Nobody is scarred by it. As adults I expect they’ll get shouted at by others a few times in their lives. And some families are just generally louder than others. Every instruction is shouted and that’s how they communicate but the children are clearly loved and cared for. Aggression and swearing is different.

I discovered glaring at mine in a certain way made them know they’d hit the limit. They would behave at that point.

Interestingly the same glare works on some of the children I work with when they know they are about to push a boundary (ie take a toy, hit someone else etc).

You’re so right OP. I’ve noticed this too and I think it’s vile that adults speak to children so disrespectfully.

My DC go to a v middle class school. Parents are a self confessed shouty bunch. If my partner drove me as insane as my dc can then I'd either be up on a murder charge or have left him so it's not really a comparison

Hmm. Perhaps you could explain to my two teen DD's that they should also not shout at me. Because 99% of the shouting that the neighbours hear emanating from our house is them shouting at each other or at me. The other 1% is me when I finally lose my rag and get annoyed and shout back. Which does happen. Because I'm a human being...

Forgot to say most of the time it's very rare I shout other than to get myself heard over the three of them then I talk normally to them. I'm more of a discussion type than a shouter and before anyone says "but you wouldn't have done it to an adult" I would have lost it alot worse with an adult.

You would all have probably judged me pretty harshly the other day. My son who has ASD, attacks his younger sibling constantly and when he has melt downs breaks anything in his path had been really full on all week. He ripped up the last picture I had of my dad, attacked me for protecting his younger sibling and broke a door. We were walking to my car to go to school/work and he wouldn't stop grabbing at me and as much as I hate the fact I did it I snapped and shouted "get the fuck off of me". It made absolutely no difference but did make a neighbour pull a judgy face at me. Obviously I said I was wrong to snap etc but that was me losing it after years of this.

And as for ‘you wouldn’t shout at an adult so why at a child?’, the vast majority of adults would never block a street by fighting with their brother or go into a tat shop having been told and explained 100 times why it is a waste of money and you are in a rush anyway. They have already learned compromise and acceptable behaviour.

I expect you see a lot of shouting in prisons where adults are still, effectively, behaving like children.

Parenting is tough. If children know they are loved and parents take time to bring them up and educate them, they are doing a good job.

I once shouted at my 16 year old ds so hard, my throat felt ripped. He had done something awful which showed lack of respect for me and his home, and betrayed my trust. And he cried, which didnt make me think I shouldn't have shouted.
It made me think " good,you little fucker".

It is crazy to judge parenting on a single factor. Some parents are more shouty, some less so. Some children are more compliant and some less so.

You could see shouting as a fail as ‘perfect’ parents have better tools for behaviour management. On the other hand, the ‘shouty’ parent may have spent more actual time chatting and playing with their children and just be at the end of their tether....

Swearing at children and calling them names is unacceptable but shouting...,I definitely do it sometimes and would never judge others for it.

And, to put a couple of myths to bed, teachers definitely DO shout at children, often as they are tired/stressed but some even use the (rate) shout as a behaviour management tool (there have been threads on this subject in the past). And, as for British people being worse than elsewhere, many countries have far more rigid controls on behaviour (especially in schools) and you just don’t see so much challenging behaviour from children. I don’t know if this is better or worse but definitely different.

Wonder what would happen if people spoke to adult loved onss the same way?