To think it’s socially acceptable in Britain to shout at children?

Surely no one believes you shouldn't ever shout at kids even if they're about to get hurt .

And actually if you snap once in a blue moon, I'm not sure that's that bad, kids do need to learn that they can't keep pushing and pushing and everyone to react in a saintly manner.

You'd be fine if your husband shouted at you all day then? That would be abuse but screaming at your kids non stop isn't

But there’s a huge gap between shouting all the time (which I don’t think anyone would think it ok), and raising your voice. I do sometimes raise my voice to DH and he to me - we’re human and lose patience - it’s not by any means abusive and our relationship is solid.

I also raise my voice to my children, usually when there’s other stuff going on or when my patience has just run out. We have a good relationship, any rifts are healed quickly and they generally behave very well.

I don’t think citing shooting 25/7 as the opposite to “gentle parenting” is helpful. Any parenting style taken to extreme is problematic.

I dread to think what your kids will turn into Ghosttoast, delinquents who are out all night at 13!!!

You're so bloody rude!

So what do people do when their kids persistently don't do as requested?

Don't smack (obviously)
Don't shout
Don't emotionally manipulate

Is it a question of targeted threats of punishment and rewards that people that don't do the above are using?

To be honest I find that can be problematic as well as I end up using food as a reward.

Personally I would be worried if I spent all my time angry with my children. But if they are really badly behaved and I get annoyed I think that's ok.

I love them more than anyone else does but they need to understand that poor behaviour isn't going to get a good reaction and that if you treat other people badly they are likely to get angry and upset with you.

Oh and I very very rarely judge anybody else's behaviour unless I witness something pretty odd. And that doesn't include a tired looking mum telling their child off.

How would you get that impression? Because I think gentle parenting is a load of crap?

the toddler who was happily dillidalling walking in an empty car park as she was watching a huge flock of birds in the sky

There is a time and a place to watch birds and it isn't in a bloody car parks!
Do you have any sense of reality?
Are you the parent that speaks ever so softly at their children and then they go to school and are absolute little shits because they have no discipline.
Why are you judging their parenting? Do you know how hard it is too parent and get ignored about 1000 times when you've told them not to do something for their own safety...

Also amazed at the nasty comments of people on here. You'd be fine if your husband shouted at you all day then? That would be abuse but screaming at your kids non stop isn't. God we've all done it but quite honestly one way to treat you and another way to treat your kids is incredibly hypocritical.
My son didn't need to be screamed at 24/7 because he was well brought up and knew how to behave.
I was absolutely terrorised by my parents and I wouldn't wish that on any child ever.

I dread to think what your kids will turn into Ghosttoast, delinquents who are out all night at 13!!!

When you hear some woman screeching at her children all day and night like a fishwife, no it is not acceptable, it's exhausting and it's teaching the children that you can't manage your own anger.
I lived next door to someone like that and did actually tell her to shut the hell up once as the noise he constantly made was unbearable.
The times to shout at your kids are when they make a mad dash for the road or are about to pull a saucepan full of hot food onto them.
If you are shouting at them non stop how do you expect them to grow up to be normal human beings.

Oh do frig off, I bet you are one of those gentle parenting types whose kids will end up naughty and get a good shock in high school.

I. Eg loads of people on here will disagree with you OP, but I completely agree with you. The idea that a child hearing a swear word is worse than their parents regularly shouting at them is ridiculous. (As in- swearing taking place in normal conversation and not shouted or directed at people).

Shouting at a child is never acceptable unless that child is in danger eg about to run across a road and needs shocking into safety. Otherwise it is modelling poor communication. Especially when "snapping". Yes children can be immensely frustrating but the role of a parent is to deal with that. If you can't manage without regularly losing your temper or snapping then don't have kids.

I was a secondary teacher in very challenging schools and never shouted. It's bloody hard, and you have to have patience but it's achievable and worth it for the positive relationships you develop. I also saw teachers snapping and saw the damage it did.

Look, everyone's going to snap once in a blue moon, but then you apologise and model humility to the child. If this is how someone parents in general it's not good.

I don't think its socially acceptable, some parents do it but I find its usually that it accompanies a myriad of other issues with their parenting or situation.

I don't particularly like shouting but i have found myself shouting "that is enough!" when i have repeated myself over and over, but its rare, and only ever during one of ds epic tantrums, that thank god, don't occur all that often.

However, as a pp said there are definitely different types of shouting. What i do, ie to get their attention and snap them out of whatever it is they're doing, and then insulting and nasty shouting, which imo is absolutely not acceptable whatsoever.

I used to walk DS to his old nursery, and there was one mum who shouted all the way to school, every day at her 2 kids who were about 4 and 5. She was truly vile to them. She would shout things like "for fuck sake hurry up you little shit" and "youre being a right little bastard this morning" and i felt desperately sorry for those kids.

realistically, i couldn't have said anything to her because she would have no doubt started on me, and with a baby with me i wasn't going to take that risk. Nor did i know the childrens names, or i would have brought it up with the school.

I think the 'British' thing is just to tut at others and judge. You're out there judging shouters and 30 min ago some delight of a woman just stood hands on hips and said "three times you've asked him not to touch things, you need to give him an earful". This was a large shop we walked round, there were lots of decorations, I thought he was actually quite restrained he's only 3. But I am sure this being mn there'll be more comments siding with the misery I encountered. The desire to be judgy and superior is very British.

This is just because we are expected to raise children as if we don't work & wirk as if we don't have children.
Being a mother/parent in this day & age is tough!
I am more offended by the other opposite type of parenting that is lazy ignoring unkind words & hitting. I often see children never called out on doing something that is wrong because of guilt because they are working.

Not even perfect parents are perfect
raisereadykids.com/perfect-parents-bad-for-children/

Op I used to think the same then I had kids. I only have so much patience. Before I shout I've asked nicely several time's

Firstly, I rarely need to shout at my kids but when I do so I'm not crumpled by some sense of moral failing. I think that shouting to command children to do as they are told, swiftly and without labouring the point, is reasonable so I don't need to erect a straw man.

I do think that some of the discipline tactics that are considered "kinder" are executed in such a way that they are confusing to children, that they are not very effective and have the effect of invoking anxiety.

I don't need you to believe me or to agree with me. It's simply my considered opinion, make of it what you will.

I shout at my children and tbh couldn't really care less what others think. I ask my children nicely 3_times . They know if I get to 4 times I'm going to shout. It doesn't mean I'm abusive or a terrible parent. You need to mind your own business.

@Baguetteaboutit actually the way it comes across here is that you're using the idea of "pathetic pleading", "drama llamas", "snotty remarks to induce guilt or shame" and other themes to justify the fact that you shout at your kids. The implication is "well at least I'm not as bad as the alternative" as though it's some how a lesser of two evils choice between these two approaches.

And I think that maybe if you have to invent a straw man argument in order to justify your behaviour then it's a sign that your behaviour isn't really justifiable.

If it’s a snapshot of a stranger’s life I mentally let it slide because I know I have had bad days as a parent, we all do. Having said that, there is a parent in my DC’s school who dominates the entire playground by literally almost screaming at her DC. She has a four year old who is still in a pram and she’s constantly snapping and shouting at him. I don’t think I’ve ever heard her speak to her children in a normal tone or ever heard her actually be nice to them. She threatened to kill her eldest in front of the teacher because he had lost his school jumper. I’ve also witnessed her ragging the kids around quite violently. Everyone gawps at her in shock, nobody knows what to do. She seemingly doesn’t give a fuck what anyone thinks.

I also overheard a Dad telling his 8/9 year old son to ‘shut the fuck up’, called him a dickhead and asked ‘what the fuck are you staring at?’ I was aghast. I don’t understand why some people procreate.

The point being is that you can levy unkindness at any volume and it is no more kind nor unkind.

Raising the volume commands attention and immediacy and is not unkind in and of itself.

Now, the point I was making is that while the op considers shouting inherently beyond the pale, I think the op's own example of exasperatedly bitching quietly about her children's disobedience is far more toxic.

Honestly, if I had to chose to live in a how with a short adult or one who whispered snotty remarks to induce guilt or shame to make me behave the way they wished ...

@Baguetteaboutit

Again, you do realise that there are more options than just these two things, right?

Parenting isn't a direct choice between between shouting at kids and using emotional manipulation. It's not a one or the other situation.

Yanbu. Some of the answers on here, insisting that it's ok because they're children, just illustrate the problem. There is a fundamental lack of respect for children, and a belief that children don't deserve respect anyway.

I will admit to not being perfect and confess that I have shouted at my dc occasionally, but I have always considered this to be a failing on my part and I have always apologised afterwards, just as I would if I lost my temper with DH at any time. DD understands that I'm human and that I will get it wrong sometimes, but it's very important to me to teach her that shouting and screaming is a totally inappropriate way to express frustration or anger. I can't teach her this if I'm modelling something different.

@Baguetteaboutit You are right, and in fact I did think that after I posted.

I shout at my two and I wish I didn't but - typcial scenario would be like this morning: having asked them nicely four times to brush their teeth this morning I snapped and yelled. We have had exactly the same school morning routine for 5 years and so yes, the shouting was justified and I have explained to them why.