Don't know how to help my unhappy child

IMO spoiling kids isn't really to do with giving them lots of toys and stuff.

It's about not teaching them that some forms of behaviour are unacceptable, that the world doesn't revolve around them, and that sometimes you have to do things even when you don't want to. And without whingeing. Because that's part of life.

A kid who isn't taught these things isn't just spoilt, they're unhappy.

I agree with the poster who suggests building his resilience. You can google tips for this (I did, to help my kids).

It sounds like he needs to build his emotional resilience given how he responds to tasks that he cannot take to immediately. Are there any forest schools in your area? Camping and a sense of self-sufficiency through orienteering, basic cooking, building dens, putting up a tent might help give him a sense of perseverance and achievement.

Hi op, I’ve read the full thread and agree with a lot of what has been said but I believe your ds needs a CAMHS referral to investigate what is really going on. Your GP can refer you to them though there is often quite a wait. They are excellent.

My 16yr old is waiting to see them again due to severe anxiety but we have seen them in the past as he has Aspergers and was assessed by them as part of the diagnosis process. They also helped when he was being bullied in year 7 and had to move schools.

MH is so important as you know and sadly, lots of our children are suffering from poor MH and need support. I hope I haven’t offended you by suggesting this but I don’t think you have anything to lose here

And the related book by same author - parenting from the inside out

He isn't created out of a vortex and children develop personalities as part of a dynamic with the family around them

There is an interesting book

I think it's called parenting the whole brain child.

I can imagine how anxiety manifests as not wanting to make an effort. But there a severely life limiting problem.

The idea if a child refusing to stay on a room while someone opens presents is pretty horrible. As is him saying he wants to move away .

Have you thought of starting with therapy for yourself and examining your own childhood and how it might have impacted (not might..how it has) impacted your parenting ?

He sounds spoilt and as if he doesn't have established boundaries. Refusing to do his homework should be seen as wholly unacceptable. He might not be a "naughty" child, but it seems as if he's became used to doing the bare minimum and getting away with it. People tend to be less happy when they adopt this attitude. There's no pride in his own work, etc.

I think @rvby has some good points, especially about being honest. I wonder whether he's getting more and more anxious because he has these unbearable feelings (anger etc) that he can sense you are afraid of (cos you don't want to upset him) and are thus not acknowledging face on? This can be really scary for kids because they think that a) there is something really wrong with them for feeling normal emotions and b) their parents won't be able to help or find them unbearable too.

I would name the emotion you see him having, and verbalise that it must be hard to be feeling that way, but decide a fair boundary and stick like glue to it. So the second he starts showing signs of anger or upset say directly 'I can see you're upset. Is is because....? Can you tell me more?' Whatever he answers, let him say it - even if it's something tough to hear. Say 'that sounds really hard/I'm sorry you're feeling that way' etc. Your boundary comes in where if he insults or hurts you, you say 'I am here to help you with your insert feeling but I can't let you hurt me.'

It might also be useful to give him ways to express anger that aren't lashing out at you either verbally or physically - so he can feel and express the feeling - and then let him know you'll be ready to cuddle and talk whenever he is. I mean that last part as a genuine offer, not an 'I won't engage with you til you're calm' thing. The aim is to show him you can contain his feelings and will be there to guide him through them, if that makes sense.

• Simplify everything. Provide structure.

Do not expect a child to be grateful for being essentially overwhelmed with too many things, too much stimulation, far too many demands and expectations. Stop overwhelming them.*

God I so agree with this. I see so many spoilt and badly behaved kids and I just think simplify things, pare things down. That's when kids are happiest but so many Parents don't seem to see or do this. And I don't mean this in a hippy simple life kind of way either.

Wont follow the rules of the game, does his own thing, huffs and puffs and moans, ever think he could just be a bit of a spoilt brat with an attitude problem

Most of these children sound utterly miserable and crippled by fear of not being good enough - the advice to punish them for situations not of their making is astoundingly awful, as is the blatantly stated preference for siblings who find lie easier in many posts. This. Some of the posts in this thread are classic examples of the kind of systemic emotional abuse that the British empire inflicted on its people in order to prime them for the mass racism and slaughter needed to subjugate the colonies... this is how you bring up a sadist.

These children need structure and boundaries and less complex environments. I agree with this as well.

My exdh was like your ds OP, and his parents responded by being exasperated, punishing him, and then alternating with "trying not to upset him" which cut him off from his family more and more. He ended up with what is probably borderline personality disorder and is chronically unhappy.

Your ds is likely much more sensitive and anxious than the rest of your children. Learn about him. Stop trying to make him "perform" for you and instead work out what is happening in his head and heart. He sounds like a perfectionist, paralyzed by his emotions and unable to self-soothe or self-regulate. So he's essentially having tantrums and opting out of life to protect himself.

He can be taught skills to cope with the parts of himself that are causing him problems, but he won't learn them through punishment or being compared to his siblings. For example many folk with BPD seem to have started out as people whose brains detect disdain and disgust in others' faces when it isn't actually there... your DS may be like that. Do you think punishing him will help with that?

Educate yourself on trauma response and self regulation. Look into how Dialectical Behavioural Therapy works and see if you can apply some of the principles to your DS. Do an OU course on developmental psychology.

Boundaries are essential, you've got to be really truthful and bold with boundaries or he will never feel calm enough to sit down and learn to cope better. However, you've also got to learn how to teach him the skills he needs to cope better. He is a child. He can't work it out on his own.

I think it'd be worth trying a different therapist, given what you say about your dad. You need the right match. Anxiety is poorly understood, I think.

I've read your thread with interest as my DD's a bit similar. In her case she needs massive amounts of physical exercise to keep her mood stable but she hates teams and organised activities. We are at the park, the pool and the clip and climb a lot!

Interesting OP because my DS1 can be a bit like this as well although it comes out in slightly different ways. Psychiatrist also says he is anxious. We are on a waiting list for therapy.

I'm intrigued by the comments on a theme of "he's spoiled by never having had to work for anything" - I suspect this to be DS1's problem a bit. He is naturally clever and finds school very easy. As a consequence any time anything is the slightest bit hard he just gives up. It is like pulling teeth with him trying to get him to do things he finds hard. I can probably count the amount of times we've managed it on one hand - riding a bike (but then later this was rejected when we got a new bike with gears that were hard), doing a swimming course - but he was so behind that we didn't enrol him in the next level, he learned with school in the end. A climbing course once - and I managed to say to him afterwards that was hard, wasn't it? But how do you feel now? But he won't go on the climbing course again. Or anything similar to it. A couple of specific pieces of homework that he struggled with. He's recently joined a Parkour club and is learning and practising moves there, which is great. Early days with that though.

And in fact, he does improve behaviour wise when he has a new challenge - starting primary and then secondary school rather than exhausting him like most children seemed to energise him and make him more content and more willing to attempt new things.

OK so the challenge is a theme. I'd been thinking of looking for things which challenge him for at home so I might go with that.

But HOW do you make them work at things when they are so avoidant of it? He has to muck in with the housework as well as having his own set tasks (cleaning room etc), that doesn't really make any difference (I suppose because it's not especially satisfying).

It's been the case since before school, BTW. He didn't walk until 16 months despite being perfectly capable of walking at 10 months and certainly by 13 months based on the accidental steps he was doing. And even then he would only walk when his hands were too full to crawl, until crawling became too cumbersome. I was astonished to see how DS2 approached crawling - with sheer rage and determination - and the utter joy he now gets from walking - because DS1 didn't do any of that, he only did it when it became the easiest option for him.

Snugglemonster you say your dad never gets pleasure from anything - that's a key indicator of clinical depression, which can also affect children and has a genetic element.

www.nhs.uk/conditions/stress-anxiety-depression/children-depressed-signs/

He wants to be in charge of everything. He likes to feel in control i think

That’s because the parents haven’t taken control and given him boundaries

Try before he hits the teen years

Being spoilt is the parent's fault not the child's - they don't spoil themselves!

You don't discipline a child for being spoilt any more than you discipline a child for lacking a skill that you haven't taught them. You stop spoiling them!

He needs less of everything, not as a punishment but because he's being harmed by overwhelming amounts of everything - that's what being spoilt is, it's being harmed.

One sport so he can actually get good at it, not 3.

Cubs or beavers yes fine.

Technology out of his bedroom - into the communal space. All of it, TV especially.

Fewer presents but ones he actually wants - talk to relatives, ask them to just give vouchers or charity donations or money if that suits them better if he gets masses of "stuff" he doesn't want but is expected to "be grateful" for.

Stop with the big days out with complicated unspoken or spoken expectations of pretending to enjoy himself and be grateful - just do much shorter, free or cheap simpler things like walks, library visits, visits to very local cafe for a hot chocolate just for half an hour, and only require his attendance and silence if he's doesn't have anything nice or neutral to say - no trying to make a specific facial expression or fake happiness compulsory, simply not being obstructive on the most basic level.

Remove everything but furniture from his room and ask what he actually wants back in there - not as a punishment but because too much stuff is overwhelming.

Too much of everything creates awful pressure for some people - it's not not just the too much stuff materialism issue but more importantly overstimulation which creates a constant feeling of having demands put on the person - including the demand to be happy and grateful.

Strip it back - he needs less of everything and time to be bored, not as punishment but because too much of every type of everything from every direction all the time is harming him.

Obviously technology in his room is the epitome of this but not the only problem.

It sounds like the onset of puberty to me

He isn't unhappy, he is 'never happy' which is entirely different. I agree with pps, the behaviour you have described IS naughty, and entitled, and downright rude. He is thoroughly spoiled, I am sorry I sound like I am criticizing you but that is not my intention, I have one of these myself, but I pull her up on it every time. You really need to start disciplining him more severely rather than fretting over him.

Why don't you tell him that he needs to stay in the room and make it about the relative, and not about himself? Sorry, but that would make me very angry indeed with one of my children. It's not all about you, I'd be saying.

Is he being bullied ?

When he says he doesn’t want to stay in the room while a relative opens gifts, that isn’t something to punish. That is just something that is told to him will happen. No negotiations on that at all surely?

OP-Surely saying hurtful things and refusing to be in the room when someone opens a present are examples of "naughty" behaviour. What consequence does he receive for using unkind words?

Ok, whinging while doing chores, yes ds has done that.
I tend to get them to do chores in a big burst- I’ll write a list and everyone mucks in and ticks things off when they’re done, it makes it a bit more fun. But whinging whilst doing that would count as naughty. Also refusing to write a card for a relative when i am telling them to do that is naughty. you have said he is never naughty but attitude, whinging, tone of voice, disobedience over reasonable requests, he is actually being naughty a lot surely?
The thing with him not really caring about the Xbox being withdrawn- suggests that the Xbox is not really that much of a treat for him. And I have just checked with my kids on this- sorry if I’m wrong-on an Xbox you can’t access the internet and YouTube is that right? Does he have an iPad? I am sure I will be the person ever to say your son might benefit from internet access!!! But with the right controls in place, when you can keep an eye on what he’s doing it’s fun, there are some v daft cartoons that my lot love, so then you can ban the iPad when they’re naughty and it actually has an impact....