Am I the only idiot that sticks to the 20 MPH limit?

Sounds like he was wrong. Which is a bit crap.

Looking back on this thread I think I missed something and was wrong too . It happens.

My main takeaways from the SAC were: get used to lower speed limits; lower tolerances (being 1 mph over and getting done); much more use of average speed cameras; and various little tips and tricks to determine what the speed limit is at any given moment.

Given I was really cynical before attending, I found it interesting, useful, definitely a behaviour changer (not that I was a speed merchant anyway). Although maybe the most interesting thing were the 23 other attendees (all of whom were older than me ... one guy had never taken a driving test). Mainly because one man summed up all the arrogance some posters here have shown and took it to another level entirely. Knowing there are morons like that on the road certainly means I try to give 100% attention to every second of driving. Including when the car is stopped ("because driving doesn't stop when the car does" ...)

If anyone suggested making them compulsory every 10 years (along with licence renewal) I would have no objection.

Yet there was a -18% reduction in Brighton, without a conclusion due to lack of data to date

Read further. There was a similar reduction in areas that weren't 20 over the same period. Which is why you need control groups in research. To stop people that don't understand data coming to stupid conclusions.

At best it appears to do nothing at all. Which would be my actual hypothesis were I doing research on this. But it costs money. Which would be better spent on traffic calming, better public transport, separated bike lanes, loads of other things that actually make us happier, healthier and aren't annoying.

Yet there was a -18% reduction in Brighton, without a conclusion due to lack of data to date

There hasn’t been an increase

He made the point that it was the physical shape of the sign that mattered, and you needed to know what type of sign it was even if covered in snow.
Sounds like he was wrong. Which is a bit crap.

Perhaps we need the man in front waving a flag

Yes definitely stealth but if there are constant cameras and it is very easy Togo 1 or 2 miles over.

Yes rosetti I think I have learnt to drive by now thanks

I read somewhere and don't have the link so it may be apocryphal, that the average speed driven in London (I think in rush hour) is 9 mph

It once took me nearly 2 hours to cross 3 miles of Birmingham in rush hour. I could have hopped it faster.

No I do. But feel like I'm going backwards!

Dg I've recently been on a speed awareness course and the policeman running it used that as an example of an advisory sign

red circle - makes it compulsory.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/519129/know-your-traffic-signs.pdf

seems to agree ?

I'm afraid you're far too late to the party. England (can't speak for other parts of the UK) wouldn't know evidence based policy if it hit you in the face.

I know

Why do you need to drive at 30mph or 40mph?

I read somewhere and don't have the link so it may be apocryphal, that the average speed driven in London (I think in rush hour) is 9 mph. Most of the time in cities we aren't driving 40. Most people (without limits) would drive to the engineering limits of the road. So we should control and police heavily in areas that need it and leave the rest alone more so that people get the message.

I'm not actually arguing for people's right to break the law. I'm arguing for using engineering, psychology and other sciences to inform law. So that we get the most effect on safety/the environment for the least money, curtailment of our wants, and infringement of our freedoms.

I'm afraid you're far too late to the party. England (can't speak for other parts of the UK) wouldn't know evidence based policy if it hit you in the face. You'd need an entire overhaul of the education system for a start, plus years for it to start to work it's way into society so when people are presented with evidence they are able to look at it and understand it.

Far easier to offload all of that to the tabloids to tell us what is good and bad, really, isn't it ? And even if it isn't, it's what we've done.

Proof of this?

"Overall findings – The evidence available to date shows no significant change in the short term in collisions and casualties, in the majority of the case studies (including the aggregated set of residential case studies)."

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/757307/20mph-headline-report.pdf

If a government report will do you.

Dg I've recently been on a speed awareness course and the policeman running it used that as an example of an advisory sign

Why do you need to drive at 30mph or 40mph?

Well I didn't know that till recently. I assumed the circle inside the rectangle meant it was mandatory but they are advisory

Hang on .. if it's in a circle, then it's mandatory - regardless of the shape of the metal sign ...

here's a compulsory one :

Except that it doesn't.

Proof of this?

After my crash I got a bit obsessive and tried emergency stops on the same road at 20mph (when no other cars were around) and it was perfectly possible to stop in time.

Except that doing an emergency stop when you know you are going to do one is entirely different to doing one when you don't. Stopping distances have to take in reaction time as well as stopping time. People are less attentive at lower speeds.

I'm not actually arguing for people's right to break the law. I'm arguing for using engineering, psychology and other sciences to inform law. So that we get the most effect on safety/the environment for the least money, curtailment of our wants, and infringement of our freedoms.

ROSPA's position on 20mph zones is that they are safer - I quote

20mph zones are very effective at preventing injuries and RoSPA would like to see their wider use in residential areas.

20mph zones significantly decrease the risk of being injured in a collision and their greater use, especially in residential areas, would help to reduce the number of traffic injuries in the UK.

I like the 20 mph

I've learned to like it, since it's happening anyway. No matter what all the better understanding posters on here think.

Well I didn't know that till recently. I assumed the circle inside the rectangle meant it was mandatory but they are advisory

I like the 20 mph - it saves lives. End of story.

Except that it doesn't.

The council are supposed to engineer the road so that 20 doesn't seem slow by narrowing, adding bends, humps etc.

Oh they are ... but it's easier to slap the signs up first.

Load of speed humps along the 20mph roads in Birmingham, certainly.

After my crash I got a bit obsessive and tried emergency stops on the same road at 20mph (when no other cars were around) and it was perfectly possible to stop in time.

@DGRossetti

😂