To get miffed that DH invites DSS to tea every night?

Also why are you cooking anyway? Women should never be the default cook. It just leads to more sexism. I don't think the cost should be an issue but your other half can cook it. My 18 year old at the moment has taken on cooking for his two brothers every day this holiday which I think is great for all of them.

Well said, Cat's Mother.

I must add, however, that I do believe that manners apply to all.

My kids will be required to give adequate notice if they will or won't be eating at home. It's rude to not arrive for dinner as well as to expect dinner if you haven't let the person preparing know.

So from that perspective you ANBU.

YADBU (D=Deffo).

your children don't automatically become "not" your children when the turn 18!!!

Even when my kids are 50 years old, they will still be my kids. Although I draw the line at them living at home forever, there will always be a place for them at my table.

I can't ever imagine turning one of them away - and if I were in your DH's shoes, I would be very upset if I was asked to turn away my own child.

Frankly, I am shocked you would even think of it.

My cousin (when he was about 20 and lived with his parents) once referred to his laundry as "women's work" expecting his mum to do it. Up until that point she always did his laundry. But, she never did it again after he made that remark.

I'd put some instructions "For Men" on the washer, dryer, and diswasher. And then I'd stop doing everyone's laundry until the division of labour around the house was more in tune with the post Victorian era.

You put up pages about how people lived in the Victoria times. And then you could put up pages about how people live today (which is of course not all like Victorian times),

The more I think about it, the more I think that your dh is creating an extremely bad example to his kids (both yuor sepsons and your own kids) in so bviously expecting you to wait on them hand and foot.

You do have it in your power to say "NO". Since you seem to have a good relationship with your dh's ex, do it together to the sons/ tell them that as women - not as a conspiracy - this is not hwo the world operates anymore. They are old enough to do things for themselves, such as their washing, and therefore, if they want it done, they can either do it for themsleves or they can get their dad to do it for them, if thinks they are so incapable. Neither you, their stepmother, nor thier birth mother, are going to continue to baby them.

Make a simialr joint stand on the meals: they owe a couresy to both "mothers" to let them kow when they will and won't be eating there - in advance. If the mothers haven't been notifed, then no food will be prepared. That way at least food won't be wasted. Another meal will not be prepared at the "other" house. If they want to come around having not had the courtesy to pre-warn, they are welcome to make the most of wahtver is in the cupbarods (baked beans on toast).

Also make it clear that wherever they do it, they will, as memebers of the family, be expected to help with the preparation and/or the clearing up.

No ifs. No buts. That is the way both mothers are going to treat these young adults. As young me who are capable of doing things for themsleves - and who for thier own sakes (and the sakes of thier future wives/girlfriends) need to learn that the women of the family are not there at their beck and call. That as functioning members of the family, even the men have responsibilities.

I honestly think the best thing to do with the washing is just leave it. Put it in a black bag if it's too noxious to have lying about. Just don't touch it!

Am very on your behalf.

The issue here isn't about "steps", it's about Dragonstitcher being taken for granted by her DH and his sons.

Their own mother, and DS, both feel they should be learning to be more independent & responsible given their ages - and so they bloody well should be ! Their dad is letting them off the hook and encouraging dependence by placing DS in an almost impossible position. He is effectively emotionally blackmailing her by saying that if she doesn't do these things for his adult sons, she is discriminating against them.

We are not talking about an ordinary level of give and take which most families operate by .... we are talking about a sustained, regular expectation that DS will wait hand and foot on the males of the family.

Following what has been said in several previous threads about "welcoming" stepkids, I know that my parents would always have welcomed me back into their home when I was 20 (or any age) and that welcome would have included a meal if they felt so inclined, and if they had the food in. I would never however, have expected it (not even a jacket potato) as calling in without prior notice carries with it a risk that your visit might not be convenient in all sorts of ways. Of course, they would always offer a drink, biscuits etc. If I had taken to calling round every night just as they were eating expecting to be fed too, then I am sure something would soon have been said ..... just as I will to my own kids should that situation ever arise for me. It's simply manners ..... and yes, manners should apply to your own family too !

The fact DS has a low income complicates this issue but it's ridiculous (again) Xenia for you to suggest they should get better paid jobs. Did you say that tongue in cheek or do you really believe there are hoardes of people struggling by on little money who haven't thought and/or looked into doing just that ? In any case, even if DS and her DH were millionaires, that is NOT the point here. Uninvited, unexpected guests - and that includes children - may not be convenient all the time for all sorts of reasons ..... this goes back to having respect and consideration for others ....

.... Gordon Ramsay (and several other well-of people, but he's the one I can specifically quote) has said that just because his children have a rich parent, they are not going to be given an easy ride. He still wants them to appreciate the value of money and to that end, gives them £2 a week pocket money .... any more has to be earnt, though of course in his case affordability isn't the issue. Quite right too ...... in DS's case, if she did go out and magically get one of these myriad "better paid jobs" which are apparently there for the picking in Xenia-world, does that then mean that she should then dismiss any attempt at basic good manners ?

(Sorry I obviously meant no higher compliment in terms of doing what's right re step-parenting. Obviously there are higher compliments with regards to other aspects of your life!)

Good point Prettybird.

Agree with edam, there's no higher compliment to you really than being accused of being in a conspiracy with their mum.

PB I suppose that's the difference between mothers and MILs. And there's an interesting discussion to be had there (on another thread!) re boundaries, custodianship of the home, etc. TBH my mother does come into my home and clean it up and re-arrange me and half of me is driven bonkers by it and the other half is jolly glad she's cleaned this pig-sty up!

If you are accused of being in a conspiracy with their mum, you are a GOOD stepmother.

Sod the washing, show them where the machine is and tell them to come back when it has to be emptied. Cheeky sods.

I don't think it's right, but I can understand why you do it Dragonstitcher. The "I can't refuse to do it because it makes me look like I resent them" says it all for me about what it's like to be a step-mum.

I do so much for dd, things her mum doesn't do for her. A couple of examples are sorting out her costumes for school plays and book days (normally with a day's notice). I've organised every birthday party she's ever had. And yet if I tell her off for anything she gets angry with me, and I get thrown at me "you're nothing to do with me".

It hurts, it really really hurts but I do tend to shut up and put up because I'm protecting myself from being hurt. We get laid into on here just for speaking up and saying we find something difficult, and if we speak up at home it can cause conflict with the step-children. And of course, I can never do anything right in her mother's eyes.

It really is a bloody difficult job being a step-mum, far more difficult I find than being a mum,

I consider myself to be a guest in my parent's home - and they in mine. I do also feel "at home" there - but that that is not the same thing. I would certainly not treat it as if it were "my home" - that would be bad manners.

Just think of some of the "am I being Unreasonable" threads, where Mumsnetters have complained about MILs (usually - but sometimes also mothers) who come into their houses and presume that they can do things/cleaning/rearranging. Everyone usually agrees that the Mumsnetters are being reasonable in being upset - yet by exntenision of the argument that some have used here, the MIls are prefectly entitiled to condier their sons houses as their homes.

My children will never be guests in the house. It will be their home. Yes I feed my three students who are adult and all at university and I am happy to do that and indeed most parents do. I don't see the problem. Yes, they're adults and yes we could cast them aside, make them live in rented flats all year round and spend every second of university holidays working but most families work out a workable compromise instead. Here my daughters are abroad - one working, one travelling this summer and my son is home. I don't resent him being at home and in fact he's very helpful with his brothers.

May the problem you have is being a low income family. Perhaps it's possible for you or your other half to get better paid work.

And I only live a few miles from my parents & visit every week with all 4 of my dcs. My brother also visits at the same time with his dcs & my mum feeds the lot of us. This is a long-standing arrangement that was suggested by my mum as she likes to have a day when she knows she'll see all her grandkids & loves to see them all playing together. But I still help tidy, make cups of tea & take cakes or whatever as otherwise I'd feel as though I was taking advantage.

LittleBellatrixLeBoot - yes we're all part of a family but I don't pay any dig/rent money to my mum so certainly wouldn't treat her home as if it was an extension of my own just because I grew up there.

That's interesting. I consider myself a guest in my parents' home, maybe just because they're a long way away and we only visit them twice a year, and equally I consider my parents guests in my home when they visit maybe once a year, ie I plan meals, get the guest room ready, think of outings for them as I would if it was friends visiting.

Excuse me? You do their laundry too 'cos it makes their dad 'feel good' to have you do it?

It sounds like the dad & both his sons need to be sat down somewhere & given a few basic facts about equal rights between the sexes.

I do most of the work here as I'm a SAHM but dh does help out as well as working f/t - in fact he probably does more cooking than I do. I think your dh really needs to get a grip.

dd1 & dd2 live with their dad & step-mum & if I thought they were treating their sm the way the op's dsses treat her I'd be livid. When the girls lived here I made it clear that they should help their sm on their weekends at their 'other home' just the same as they do here. Now that things are reversed the same rules still apply - in fact I've told them they should be especially considerate just now as their sm is pg.

I haven't lived with my mother for 20 years, but will never be a guest in her house.

Just as she's not a guest in mine.

She's part of my family.

Haven't read all the posts yet (but I will ) but just to say YES the 20yo dss is a guest in his father's house if he doesn't live there. I don't live with my parents & consider myself a guest when I visit them (albeit one who makes cups of tea etc).

It would be different if he was younger (my dd1 is 14 & dd2 is 13 - they live with their dad but as far as I'm concerned my house is still their house too) but at 20 he is a young adult not a child.

Also I read as far as the OP saying that dss1 informed her as he was tucking into his meal that his mum was cooking for him later too - WTF? he is being a lazy sod & totally taking the piss.

YANBU!

Off to read the rest of the thread now

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat?

Washing?

Sorry but you are mad if you think that not doing their washing would make you look resentful of them. I can understand that you have to tread really, really carefully in order not to have your actions misinterpreted (and it sounds like you've gone above and beyond the call of duty), but it is not reasonable for young men to expect anybody else to do their laundry for them unless they are physically disabled and unable to. Or of course, unless they are Princes William and Harry and get their arses wiped for them anyway (your name's not Camilla, is it? )

Why do you do their laundry? Why does your DH accept it as the natural order that you do the laundry? Are you a laundrywoman? do you do the neighbour's laundry too? WTF?!!!! I would actually be really angry with a DH that thought it was my natural role to clean up everyone else's shit tbh, but that's probably a separate issue.

I would just say something along the lines of "your mother expects you to do your own laundry and I agree with her. I don't want to undermine her and I realise that I might have unintentionally been doing so by allowing you to leave your laundry here, so I'm not going to let you do that anymore boys. Welcome to self-sufficiency, self-esteem and a proper respect for women which your father has unfortunately been undermining by giving you the impression that women are there to clean up after men."

Well OK, maybe I wouldn't phrase it quite like that. But you get the gist.

they leave you their washing?????

ok, i thought you were being unreasonable but i would tell them if they do that again it will be going out with the bins. cheeky little sods! i would tell dh if he wants it done he can do it, and i hadnt considered that they might not help with clearing up afterwards (whether its stacking dishwasher or washing up makes no difference) cos its just what you do. i go to my mums for tea once a week and i still help clear up afterwards (baby permitting). i dont think you can say they cant come, but leaving you their washing leaves me speechless! you def need to start giving them jobs as soon as they get in the door, after all they are part of the family and all the kids in my house have jobs to do, its not unreasonable to expect them to help out

They are definately taking advantage of you. Not to mention setting a terrible example for your other children.

I would stomp my foot down loud and clear. In fact, I would sit down with DH, XW, and agree a set of table rules that are to be enforced equally in both houses. ie boys do washing up or help cook or whatever is their fair share in BOTH houses.