To think that schools should teach reading properly

Orm, in answer to your first para, for some reason some of the schools teach word recognision differently. No good teaching your child something that will be undone and confuse when they get to school.

orm, what do you get to help you?

I'm not sure you need to know exactly how a child is taught to read to back up their education. Reading to a child as well as with, answering questions about anything and everything, explaining, pointing out, constantly counting and doing simple sums in everyday activities, taking them to place that will stimulate their interest... those are education in the widest sense and those are the things that most schools don't have time to do anymore. A teacher teaches, we add the bits they can't do in 6 hours a day 5 days a week.

Why does it matter if a child can't read in reception?

FWIW we do get some idea of what the children are learning that term and what we can do to help.

I do think you are making assumptions . Presumably you are hearing much 2nd hand and ,perhaps, with the mother working even she may be less directly in touch with the classroom on a day to day basis. Her dd obviously is being exposed to phonics from your first post, perhaps in conjunction with other methods like learning to recognise the 40 odd sight words for Reception. Presumably she is younger than average for the class , so just 5? maybe, may not have the most encouraging of home support and it just may not have "clicked " for her yet. I suspect it is way too soon to consider dyslexia as a serious concern.

Interesting - sounds like we may be in a minority then because we do get information as to how the school intends to teach the children, via this detailed session at the beginning of the year. And three reading books a week to bring home and 1-to-1 reading sessions with teacher or TA three times a week at school.

I'm not sure I agree with the "pictures are for decoration" bit.

My DS is in Reception, and at the beginning of the year we had a really helpful evening session with the head outlining the way they were going to teach them to read. As an example she gave us a paragraph of a text written in Dutch. Interestingly when the paragraph in Dutch had pictures added to it, most people felt that they could understand much better what it was about - the pictures aided or confirmed the interpretation. She said it was a very good example of how the children hovered around the "edge of understanding" with their early reading.

To my mind the pictures help DS with the reading, which makes him follow the narrative, which make him enjoy the book, which makes him feel good about his reading which makes him a better reader.

I may just be feeling smug as we have never done an ORT or Biff and Chip!

Ah now - I did leave it to the school .

I read to my ds before he started school, but I didn't teach him to read. I still spend more time reading to him than listening to him read (you get more interesting stories ), but he is making good progress despite my slackness. Perhaps it would be faster if we did things differently, but we, and his teacher, are happy witht he way we are doing things.

I think the biggest laugh about the education system and the expected input from the parents is that nearly every parent I know does not know what the kids are being taught or how they are being taught.

How can you reinforce any education like that.

Mumsnetters should petition the Education Dept to issue learning guidelines at the beginning of each term and give some clues as to its application, that way we could all help our children to reach the standards we hope they will.

You need to spend some time in the class room before making judgements.

I didnt have a clue what went on in a class until read with the kids as a parent assistant.

My view is that the standards I have witnessed are particularly weak, what can you do? If you mention it, it either gets ignored or you are told that your child will be working to the standard appropriate for them.

Then you feel pushy and withdraw. Nothing gets done.

I back everything up with my ds when he gets home. That means reading every day and some numberwork.

When I taught my ds to read before reception, I didnt have a clue as to how you did it, I just taught him how I was taught.

You cannot leave it all to the school because it just wont happen.

But can you stop them guessing? As I said, my ds guesses. He was taught JP - undiluted - as it should be taught. He doesn't need to guess. But he does.

Well, schools are supposed to follow the recommendations of the Rose Report from September 2007. But I know for a fact that my sons' school is not going to use phonics first, fast and foremost, as is recommended. They have been given the OK by their attached Ofsted inspector, because their results are generally very good. I think this is completely missing the point, as it is the underachieving children whom synthetic phonics will most benefit.

It makes me very angry because the success rates are so much higher for all children with properly taught synthetic phonics. Watching even fluent readers in DS2's Y1 class guess at unfamiliar words is disheartening. DS2 hardly ever guesses, because he doesn't need to.

Pictures are for decoration and to tell us something more about the story. They do not tell us the words.

See, no pictures in this post.

But I thought they had to now...

Synthetic phonics raises reading rates dramatically in studies. No excuse IMO for not using it in schools.
Not saying all children should learn to read by the age of 5 or anything, just that they should all be taught by the most effective methods.

There are thousands of teachers out there trying their best to make sure their class can all read to the required level by the time they finish primary school. Unfortunately they sometimes come across problems like:
a) Children who just don't want to learn and cannot be induced into being interested in reading;

b) Completely disinterested parents who don't care enough to encourage their children;

c) Being unfortunate enough to work in a school where everything is a constant struggle and there is practically no help forthcoming from the LEA or headteacher.

In these situations I feel it is unfair to say that these teachers just 'find it acceptable' to allow children to leave school not knowing how to read, they really have no choice in the matter.

My ds was taught JP in reception. But he rarely sounds out unfamiliar words unless pressed to do so. He 'guesses' from the first letter, context etc. Short of giving him books with no pictures in I can't really stop him doing it. Especially as he really rather good at it. Now worried about the bad habits...

My DD couldn't decode simple words after 6 weeks of phonics. She didn't really read anything much in reception or the first term of Year 1. Then over the Christmas holidays something clicked literally over night and off she went. She's now one of the better readers in her year. I think some children just aren't ready to learn to read in reception, whichever method you use.

DS is nearly 4 and completely different. He won't be starting until September of next year and will be streaks ahead of where DD was at that age. However, I'm confident that when he gets to her age now (Year 3) he will be at a pretty similar level to what she is now.

And I was reading before school thanks to bllody flashcards and Janet and poxy John.

Well you know neither of my children could read before Yr1 - DS#1 not before the end of Yr 1. They both read fluently in the end. Phonics and good teachers not withstanding. I really think that it is too early to worry. All children learnt at different rates.

I have yet to meet a teacher that thinks it's acceptable for an 11 yr old not be able to read and write

Indeed - lots of word recognition and 'guessing in context' in ORT.

DS's school has a tow-entry reception - I wonder if those schools leave systematic phonetics until Yr1 rather than have chiuldren at two levels? i don';t know, just wondering.
I thought there wasn't that much leeway over teaching to read within the NC, anyway, and they teach to those quality assuracne schemes...

I don't think it is at all fair to presume that teachers think it 'acceptable' that 11 year-plds can't read.

ORT is not strictly phonetic anyway.

are you in the class room every day?

reallytired, you'd be hard pressed to find a teacher who thinks it is acceptable ( this 20% being talked about) , what a ridiculous statement to make!

and about the little girl who is 'developmentally delayed' - you don't know the story about her, or what her needs are or indeed what measures her teachers and support workers have put in place. YOu're making an awful lot of assumptions here

I would disagree that pictures are soley for decoration and also that children learn to read only through synthetic phonics. Synthetic phonics are brilliant and give children the confidence to tackle unfamiliar words but some sight vocabulary is needed as well as other aids like using the pictures to help and the context.

My dd is 4 and is very good at synthetic phonics but when she tackles a book she uses the pictures to help her, if she meets an unfamiliar word she thinks about the context. All these things are unconscious but are very valuable early reading skills. Much as I love synthetic phonics they will only take you so far.

Also most teachers don't think it is acceptable that 20% of 11 year olds can't read - that is quite a sweeping generalisation.

As far it being the schools job to teach reading - yes to a certain extent that is true but children need to practice a skill and if there is no reading/looking at books going on at home then that will hold a child back. I got really fed up of hearing that from the parents of some of the poorest readers at school - the "why should I read with him, that's your job" - talk about passing the buck (not wishing to generalise myself - obviously there were some very poor readers who worked very hard with their children).