To think that schools should teach reading properly

Anchovy, I think some schools (and some proponents of synthetic phonics!) use other alphabets to make the point that 'look and say', or whole-word recognition, is actually very difficult. For example, if I see a text in Arabic or Thai, I can't read it, and it is amazingly difficult trying to pick out one word you know.

Actually I used to cover up the pictures for DS1 as he spent so long looking at them he never looked at the words. Obviously I didn't cover up pictures in books I was reading to him, and I certainly didn't do it once he could read.

Both my boys learned to read easily and well, but I taught DS2 via synthetic phonics before school, and it makes so much more sense than the way DS1 was taught. DS2 is much less likely to guess at unfamiliar words than DS1, even though DS1 is a nearly 9 year old with a reading age 5 years above his chronological age and DS2 is not yet 6.

iirc level one is the first one with basic sentences ie "Run, Floppy, run" . It does seem a bit early to say she hates reading. In whose eyes I wonder ? Perhaps she does n't fancy sitting down with mummy to look at it which is rather different !

"I think the biggest laugh about the education system and the expected input from the parents is that nearly every parent I know does not know what the kids are being taught or how they are being taught."

Tenalady, we held literacy sessions for the parents in which we outlined how we approached the teaching of reading, when we introduced ERR (a very rigid system of teaching synthetic phonics, sight vocab and reading in context) we held meetings to discuss what we were doing and how parents could help - the turnout for all those meetings were pathetically low - the great majority of our parents were apathetic. We did similar for maths.

My dd's future school has produded their own booklets on how they approach the key curriculum areas with sections on what parents can do to support that learning.

Not all schools are crap, not all teachers are - a lot of us try very hard indeed.

God I agree about the phonics. I taught secondary age children to read, pretty much from scratch, using a phonics programme and it worked wonderfully well on the whole.

My feeling is that Aloha's right on the importance of synthetic phonics. Based on observations of my friends - I was lucky as a 70s child to go to a village school that had no truck with trendy theories and still used phonics. My friends who went to schools that taught 'look and say' had a much harder time reading and many of them really struggled with spelling, in particular. I know English isn't phonetic, but being taught c-a-t really helps children begin to grasp how it all works from the start. (Mind you, that other trend in the 70s to spell everything wrong before you learn how to do it correctly probably didn't help them.)

I can't remember what ORT level one is all about but the only thing that would concern me about the original post is that the child hate reading. Even then, two terms is very early days.

"Tut,tut! It really makes a difference to read the reading book with them every day.

I can see a big difference between the kids that do and dont."

I suspect that is not always true.
My ds is above average at reading. We don't read the reading book every day. That's not to say he doesn't read every day - but the reading books? No.

I had the same problem with DD2, but her Year 2 teacher let me use books from home in place of the school's books. Which was great until she started Year 3 and the teacher moved her back into the school reading system at the point she'd moved outside it two terms previously, didn't hear her read for the first three weeks of term, and then wondered why I went in and complained. Fortunately now all three DDs can read what they like .

Do they still have recommended reading books by Yr 5? I think that here they just choose library books for reading in school. Mind you I guess they are grouped by age.

Singersgirl, I'm not explaining it very well, but the Dutch example did work as a good analogy. When you see it written down, you can see its common roots with English - I'm sure they chose a subject to have a good comparator. Obviously you cannot have a direct comparison as you cannot go back to a "non-reading" situation. But DS's head teacher (who is also a SEN specialist) said that trying to ignore pictures was a common mistake parents made. Obviously this was only a session for 4-5 year olds, and I'm sure that they need to be phased out at a pretty early stage.

Shrink - that's really bad! Since DS1 has 'grasped' the concept of reading and phonics, building up words etc he's been flying through his books and several times this school year I've seen written in his reading record book "xx read his book very well with lots of expression, moved him up a level".

Shrink, they should of brought some in from the year above. Typical!

actually at the start of Reception we did a lot but he found ti really hard and struggled with it - and I found myself getting frustrated - so backed off.......now he just likes to get his reading book out on his own, read it out loud while I'm cooking dinner/sorting DS3/ironing etc etc etc.

Now after spending loads of times worrying that he was "slow" at reading - I'm starting to wish he wasn't quite so good......reads the TV Magazine and knows what's on, and the TV guide on the TV too when you're flicking through the channels seeing whats on and we have strops because he can't watch "When Sport Goes Bad" on Bravo

Orm, that sounds great that you can be involved, as you can see yours is the only post that has evidence of information coming home to reinforce the education at school. I think when you read most of the posts on other threads they are often questions about what is expected and what happens in the classroom.

DD1 used to want to read her school reading books really quickly to get them out of the way so that she could then read "her" books. She wasn't allowed to be moved up reading levels because apparently she'd run out of books by Year 5

Tut,tut! It really makes a difference to read the reading book with them every day.

I can see a big difference between the kids that do and dont.

tenalady - for example we get told they are studying the local area and asked to provide resources (maps etc) and asked to take the children to visit places that they might be interested it. With maths for DS earlier this year we were told that they were using number lines for long division and could we help them practice this. ACtually maths methods is a bug bear with me as I'm sure they contrubuted to my panic over all things mathematical at school and are starting to do the same for DD! DD has a project to complete and we were told all about this and asked to ensure it was being done and to help where neccessary.

• when I remembered/wasn't too tired (I 'd just started working nights) even now I'm dreadful at remembering to get it out and read with him .

Fanny did you read with him regularly at home with his reading books?

I don't think the comparison with Dutch is valid, though. After all, the reason the pictures help us understand the Dutch text is because we don't speak or understand the Dutch language (well, at least I don't). Most beginning reading books contain words that young children understand, particularly if we are talking about children for whom English is a first language. So if we teach them to decode accurately, they don't need pictures to help them understand.

Of course pictures enhance a story enormously and are very important for young children's overall experience of reading and books. They may even help children comprehend words they have not met before, as in the Dutch example. But they are not helpful as a means of decoding. I have seen so many children in Year 3 and older still scanning pictures frantically for clues, because they don't know how to read properly.

How do you stop them guessing? You can't, completely, but you can say, "Don't guess. Read the word properly. Let's build it up from the beginning and say all the sounds." You can also use logic to explain how much quicker it is if they do that all the time and how much more accurate their reading is.

If your child knows its alphabet and can sound them then really simple reading books should not be a problem. They make the sounds of the alphabet to build the word.

TBH I think if your child is still in reception it's too early really to "judge" how they're doing with reading. Many children learn to read ( alittle) before school, some are "new" to it when they arrive.

DS1 really seemed to struggle with his reading when he first started school - and was a long way "behind" many of his peers - he's coming to the end Y1 now and is one of the best readers in his year!!

Orm, if your child is unable to read by year 1 it will slow the teaching process down for others in the class.

I think I read somewhere that by year 1 they should be able to recognise so many words and be able to recognise and write a simple sentence. Reading is an aid to this.

meandmyflyingmachine - so did we!

I hated forcing my children to read those stupid books. DD was OK with it but DS#1 hated them. And I failed to see how making them do something they hated was going to encourage good reading habits. So I read to them. Books like the Hobbit which actually captured his interest. The Kipper and Biff junk was relegated to once a week.