to not get fed up with dh constantly coming home from work late?

Yes filly - I completely agree. Every job has its own commitments - if I were earning £1000s more per year than my DH yet I finished at 3pm every afternoon I would pick up the kids from school.

It would never be a case of 'I earn more than you so you can pick the kids up'....we don't all live in xenia's world. Thank goodness.

oh I can see how, in effect, its sexist because women tend to be the ones earning less in society. For a MYRIAD of reasons. Like I said below, I earnt less for the simple reason than that I was YOUNGER than dp, left uni 7 years later, etc.

What concerns me is that if you simply switched round the genders there "because SHE earns less, SHE should pick up from the CM", you have, in effect, a justification for women taking responsibility for childcare.

No. You both work. You sort out childcare according to the HOURS that you work, not your financial contribution to the household.

In a way it's probably been easier for me because i had dd1 so young i hadnt had a chance to build up a career i didnt know what i was missing. I had a slight insight when i got a ft office job but even then it wasn't a high powered career (but was the kind of place people expect you to stay late then go to the pub to socialise etc) and i didn't like it now maybe if i'd got into something else maybe it would have been different.

I felt like it was a pointless job, I've realised the sort of jobs i'm suited to are ones where i can make some kind of difference to someones life like when i was a carer it felt good to know i was helping people who couldn't help themselves and now i'm a childminder its amazing when a child learns something i've been teaching them, skills they will need all their lives, like how to write their name and that's what you have to think, for now at this time in your life you are the person who is able to teach your children these things, they will remember the effort you put in forever and will always appreciate you (except for a few years when they are teenagers maybe but when that blows over and you are still there for them it will be important to them)

Think back and look at your childhood, think about the memories you have, everyday i am with my children i think of how i can give them happy memories on top of stimulating, teaching and above all loving them.

Oh....by the way, I was 'barney 2' and changed my id today...just in case anyone was a bit puzzled. Sorry!

Thank you to lovemygirls....nice, kind words. Thank you.

'They should get better paid jobs then' - Xenia.

What are you on? Why make such a pathetic, rude, insulting comment?

If you've got nothing helpful to say why bother?

All the MNetters that I've had contact with have been helpful, caring, lovely people.

I'm sure you're just out there to piss people off. Go get a life.

Sept 08 isn't all that long away and as the children get older it will egt easier, your evening should be your own (mine are and my children are 8 and 1) they are both in bed asleep by 8pm at the latest. Insist on time to do things to make you feel like you. eg personally i have chosen things that are important to me and we go out of our way to ensure i get them as often as possible, simple things like getting my eyebrows waxed, haircuts at least twice a year, massage at least twice a year, dp bath's dd2 most nights, we take it in turns to have lie-ins, he takes the kids out while i deep clean the house sometimes (this really benefits us all, he gets quality time with kids i get some alone time - even if i am cleaning i find it therapeutic and feel i can handle the week with everything in its place at the start of it, its easier to keep on top of it meaning i can relax in the evenings.

I decided after i'd had my first dd at 17 that whatever i did for work would have to fit around my children, that would be my priority until they have left school then i will think about what i'd like to work as. I have tired various jobs to see what works best and personally have found working part time gave me a bit of both worlds, full time turned me into someone who resented working in an office because i didnt see dd enough for my liking. Now i am a childminder and though hard work and unreliable on the money front it's what i enjoy the most and as long as money allows I will continue at least until my children have left school.

....here we go again.
Red rag to a bull comment from Xenia.

They should get better paid jobs then. I worked with a 2.5 year old full time and lost of other women do. It would make you a lot happier too. Just my view. Feel free to ignore it.

Don't rise up to her, she is just stiring things up. Besides... no matter how good your arguments/reasons may be, she won't hear other than her own opinion.

Go back to full time work? How exactly? I have a 3yr old who goes to nursery for 2 1/2 days per week during which time I do work. And as for 'earn everything off him'...what exactly do you mean xenia? Do you mean I live off him and that some men don't like that? It's a fact of life I'm afraid. Some Mum's can't afford childcare and the freedom to return to work.

On this business of whether or not Xenia's comments that the lowest earner should pick up the children and whether or not that is sexist because the woman is the lower earner in the majority of couples. I don't think it is sexist. I think the fact that often women do make all the compromises, have the days off with sick children, do the childcare runs, go part time etc is why they are the lower earner in many cases.

Although personally I think it shoudl be split where possible. And our standard routine is for me to get out of the house and into the office early while DH does breakfast, childcare drop offs, which means I can finish early (I am likely to be made redundant in the next few months so am very much clock watching) and get home to do the after school things (swimming lesson, football practice, tea, reading, spellings) a bit sooner and DH often comes home to a meal on the table.

That what comes of giving up work. Go back full time and he'll just have to get on with organising and paying his half of the child care etc. It will certainly help you feel like a proper person again and also take some of the stress and strain of having to earn everything off him too which many men don't like.

I just see myself as 'housewife' and 'Mother' and I'm not, I'm 'ME' too and its about having a true identity and I don't know how many times I've shouted and screamed desperate to be 'ME' and to have a break from housework, kids and work.

I love my dh dearly but I feel like I've been left on the shelf and I'm certainly not the person he married all those years ago.

That's not envy, is longing for a fairer division of the work share.

BTW, he can always accept more jobs as long as he promises reasonable delivery times. The problem is not trying to do more but saying that it could be done for yesterday! added point of being realistic about deadlines is that people gets to respect your opinion and work rather than thinking you are the poor slow employee never able to finish things on time.

He has assured me, whilst talking to him this morning, that he is going to say no to extra work when he is travelling home - which is part of his problem because he's always been one to help out and go out of his way to help - not just with this job but that's just the way he is whether its work or home life.

I think part of my problem is envy, believe it or not.

I miss not getting up in the morning, dressing nicely (not the usual jeans and t-shirt I seem to live in nowadays) and going off to work for the day and coming home, having a tea, having a quiet evening and enjoying the rest of my day. I miss the buzz of being part of a team, having a laugh at work, enjoying the social side of working, works parties etc etc. I worked full-time for 15 years before I had children and I do really miss it. But until such time as my youngest is at primary school (Sept 08) I won't be able to get back into work and even then my evenings will be taken up with kids etc.

I envy my dh going early, enjoying a quiet drive in the car, listening to music....me? I usually have two kids on the backseat, moaning the music is on too loud and bombarding me with questions.

If he really needs to work that late every day, the post may not be planned well. Otherwise it may be that he needs to get better organised or to stop accepting extra little jobs if there is not enough time to complete them in a reasonable time.

I have made a deal with DH, he is a bit of a workaholic and used to arrive home late and continue working after dinner. I have asked him to arrive here on time to spend more time with DS and to help around, as soon as DS is in bed he can continue working. This agreement allow for my DS to see his father at a reasonable time (and for the teachers and me to avoid the knock out effect of having an tired stroppy kid the day afterwards), and it doesn't make a huge dent in the amount of time DH has opted to spend in working. It only moves his dinner earlier for the benefit of the whole family.

OK - I see your point and praps it wasn't a sexist comment but regardless of that what xenia put is hardly relevant to my initial post and I still disagree with what she put - it doesn't matter who earns the most it is still a shared and joint responsibility as to who looks after children - it shouldn't be expected that the lower paid earner does the running around - which is what xenia was stating.

If I earnt more than my dh I wouldn't expect him to make sure he was around to do the four school runs I do each day.

Ok - I'm not disagreeing or agreeing with her point - I'm just saying that it can't be sexist because it wasn't judges on which sex had the job - just who earned the most.

Well I'd say it were a sexist comment - sorry if you don't agree.

I'm not going to waste my time talking about her comments - I don't agree with what she had to say and considering the fact that I didn't initially bring up the subject of who earns more etc I think we'll leave her comments out of it.

still not sexist

I don't think Xenia was suggesting that if a job was to 'go' the lower paid one would. What she was stating was that when it came to either parent picking up a child the lower paid one should. And I quote 'you earn more, your job comes first, he picks up from the CM'. It's that quote that I disagree with.

I don't think Xenia was being sexist. Her argument would be the same whichever sex earned more.
What she's saying is if it came to one job going, it would surely be the lower paid one. Therefore best to protect the higher paid one IF necessary.

I do wonder which planet Xenia is on sometimes....I couldn't quite believe she put 'you earn more. Your job comes first therefore he collects from the childminder'...how sexist is that?

Like I have already said if I earnt more or less than dh it makes absolutely no difference to who takes care of the kids, picks up from school etc etc. Its a 50/50 split regardless of who brings home the most money - its not a contest! Its a case of each taking equal responsibility.

I've read some other bits Xenia has written and tbh she does have a tendency to wind people up so praps I ought to ignore her threads?

"You earn more. Your job comes first therefore he collects from the child minder."

REALLY don't agree with that

you are both working, you both have kids. You take EQUAL responsibility for the childcare

otherwise, because in most couples the woman earns less, she will end up doing most of the childcare related stuff and so ultimately have her job eroded

When I was working I earnt less than dp, not because I was less qualified or anything, simply because I am 7 years younger than him and so 7 years further down the career ladder. To take sole responsibility for childcare would have widened the disparity further.