To be angry that parents won't allow their children to go on school visit to local mosque?

Theres no way i would even let my kids learn about Islam or anything to do with muslims, so there would be no chance I would let them near a mosque

Kerrymum, how do you depgrogramme that?
I am keen to know, as my son now tells me "God has made everything, but WHO made our shower cubicle or the car?" My husband, even if he is the catholic one, is beginning to wonder if we made the right choice in sending our son to a catholic school. The questions we get, such as "How can Jesus be in my heart?" is just a little bit tricky to answer.

I agree with aloha. And I can't say that often on a thread about religion

If my children are going to be out of school I'd much rather they went to the theatre or the seaside. Something you actually have to visit to really understand. I visit all sorts of places on holiday as a tourist, but think this is mostly a waste of time for children. I'd rather they read Greek Myths to find out about religion.
And I think whoever posted that the less people understand about each other's religions, the less conflict there is, has a point.

I believe (but am not sure) that gender segregation at worship is a feature of many world religions including orthodox judaism and old fashioned Christianity (up to about 200 years ago???) Shall have to go and look that up now.

am I the only person who hasn;t read DC's comments on this thread as they are so long? Am feeling more than a bit shallow about it

I agree with DC on the point about religious freedom. If the state starts making laws in preference of one belief-system above another it gets very complicated. I think the government is best out of religious affairs - whatever the religion. (and vice versa, tbh)

I suppose my point Peachy is that one shouldn't assess other people's religion at all if you think this is going legitimise buggering them around.
I've no doubt that one can compose a scale that makes Scientologists look bad, I'm no fan myself.
But...
A list from someone who makes a living out of rescuing people from cults is like the WH Smith "Recommended" lists which are wholly commercially chosen to make money.

Imagine this bloke was devising a list, and giving weights to things like donations, illegal activities, etc. Imagine further that a respectable religion like Orthodox Judaism came near the top.
Would he announce to the world that this was a cult ?
or, more realistically would he think up a new factor which made them look really uncultlike.
I'm sure that given 10 minutes we could put our heads together and devise an objective looking scheme that made the England supporters club look like a cult.
Th FA takes lots of money from their members. England FC cult members are required to undertake frequent expensive pilgrimages. They are observed to stand motionless for hours chanting prayers, and make assertions like "we're going to win the competition" which have no basis in objective reality.
These people are apparently required to drink alocohol in such quantities that it damages their health. Like any good religion, they have a faction who seeks out non-believers and imparts violence unto them.
They are required to wear clothing in public that on person who was not under the influence of a cult would choose, and they are seen to break down and cry in public then their messiahs fail them.

I teach religious studies at secondary school level and I feel very strongly that pupils should visit different places of worship. I also feel that it is even better if they do so when at primary school because (hopefully) they then accept different faiths for what they are rather than how the media portrays them. Because of the geographical location of my school we are predominantly a white christian school (and town) and so I feel it is particularly important for children to learn about others. I would (will?) be upset if my DS, who is only 3 at present, did not have the opportunity to learn about other faiths. Whether or not one has a religious belief oneself is irrelevant - it is a case of understanding why/how people act etc. I am not talking politics here I am talking about different dress/food laws etc. I think it is important for children to understand why others are different and to appreciate the feelings of others.

THAT below was of course for Kewcumber

OH no, you are wrong there, us tsarinas is getting taxes from you lot, to fund our villas and YOU plebs do the cooking, lol!

I am right across the border in wandsworth, and am in fact a double tsarina, as I cover both areas till I can find a co tsarina in your borough, so.... the question is there.... help me? You get taxes!

where are you strrystarry? Tsarinas a meant to hold (and fund) big banquets for the local plebs (Lemonaid will go halves with you)

I think a lot of people who practice Scientology are slightly bonkers but then I think trainspotters are mostly slightly bonkers too and I wouldn't lead a concerted campaign to stop trainspotting...

"Personally I find any "religion" whose premises are more far-fetched than a b rate sci-fi thriller to be cultish."

so that would be all religions then.

as for scientology being blacklisted in england i think it's a bad idea. as far as i know scientology does not promote violence,hatred or bigotry. and as such i do not see why they should be villified just because the majority of the population do not share their beliefs.if you wish to join and pay them money as an individual capable of deciding what is right for you then why stiop them?it does not hurt anyone else.remember christianity began as an underground religion which was outlawed,and how many times when we hear about middle eastern tyrants is the first crime listed against their people not allowing them the freedom of religion?

Now there is a thought Kewcumber! Do I sense a night out in the near future?

sad and racist (to go back to the opener)

Tsarina - get you two! Is there going to be a crowning ceremony?

Lemonaid, admittedly I did not think of the situation where the village school is CofE and there being no other schools around!

And Lemonaid, have been trying to get hold of you, as we are both tsarinas in the same area...

DC, strangely, I agree with you too on these issues.

And I echo that all children of all faiths should be able to learn about/explore all faiths.

from what I know of JW I have to question their lack of cult-ness too, purely from the reports of a friend who was on the fringes

I guess the thing is DC, that yes there are various sections of allr eligions but anyone can set themselves up as a branch of X Y or Z and say they want money. However, if ytou want to assess a religion truthfully you nedd to look at the mainstream presentations- I could set up a thread on MN encouraging everyone to give their kids a diet of fruitshoots and chips, but although that would then be a mnifestation of MN it certainly wouldn't be the true picture iyswim.

I read a wonderful book many years ago written by a chap who was paid to go undercover and 'rescue' people from cults. he ahd a working definition of cults- I will try and find it but t was a loooong time ago- and the book included a checklist of the popular belief systems at that timw and a checklist of where they fitted the operational defintion. Scientology ranked very highly iirc.

I don't beleive anyone shoudl be eprsecuted because of their religion, and I also beleive that we need to haev religious freedom. That doesn't mean we have to tolerate the practives of religiosn that use brainwashing, or other mind control techniques. It just emans that we don't judge each individual on the absis of their selected faith.

Peachy, I share with you suspicion about Scientology, but don't see any difference between it and many Christian groups, who don't get the same sort of scorn.
Most Christian sects have at some time required their people to give money, and in places like Germany they had actually got the state in on the idea.

As for it being a dangerous cult...
Someone once said that a cult was a religion without political muscle.
No one here seems to have any knowledge of them actually doing any violence to anyone ever.

Try to write down a description of the regime of Monks and Nuns to be found in most Christian groups, that doesn't sound cultish ?
I can't. Can you ?

They do try to convert people, that is of course the official duty of every Moslem and Christian. Jehovah's Witnesses go door to door, indeed all of us have had various sorts of Christian trying to convert us.
Don't recall any of them being outlawed for it.

I had a friend who became a Scientologist. His nickname before was "Mad Ian", so it wasn't much of a shock. So yes, I see them as more flakey then most religions, but not that much more.
Also I don't think I should have the power to enforce my view upon them. To me that's the basis of any religious freedom. Once you start saying that the state has the right to say what's OK to believe, it's hard to see that ending well.
In Germany Tom Cruise is being persecuted in a way that would cause outrage if he was a member of a more politically powerful religion.
OK, he's a movie star, and it's an inconvenience which he can live with, but what if he was just some bloke trying to do his job ?

I've witnessed the impact of losing a child to a cult. My mother's neighbour's daughter was brainwashed into joining the Moonies. It took them over 10 years to get her out. Even though she has been out of it now for many years, she is still mentally scarred and pychologically as well emotionally disturbed. She has trouble holidng down a job. She is in her 40s now.

Does my bum look big in these flames?