To expect my 8 year old DS to not eat with his hands anymore?

see i do get the idea of food tasting nicer without a mouthful of metal in the way. for example dh will always use a spoon for something like a chinese but i much prefer chopsticks as it means less utensil in my mouth. same with something like a gooey cake, he'll use a spoon, i use a fork, spoon means too much metal. i would use my hands i think, except i would find it too messy.

but if there is a genuine motor problem, and my ds2 for example does have real genuine motor problems, don't know about op ds, then you can bang on as much as you want about good manners. I don't think it's always a matter of laziness or bad manners, but a genuine physical restriction. I constantly remind my ds to eat nicely, physically show and help him hold his fork, but I know he finds it extremely difficult. I always had axcellent table manners 8but then tbh every meal time was a misery of "don't take your mouth to your fork, take your fork to your mouth, don't look for the next forkfull before you've eaten what's n your mouth, elbows off the table, don't talk with your mouthful, you cut with your knife, don't drag it blahblahbloodyblah"

I think if a kid can use cutlery properly they should, but it does bristle a bit to say you expect high standards when your kid is perfectly capable of doing so. But there is the issue with many kids, especially boys, who might not physically be able to reach those standards. My rules are minimum, not talking with mouth full, not biting down on fork (noise of teeth on metal goes right through me, dh worst offender), & use of cutlery as best they can. Ds3 can use his cutlery better than ds2, who's 3 years older, and ds1 who's nearly 8 is the messiest of 'em all.

I agree with you completely kate. And i think the key word in your last post is 'encourage'. I do think I'd try to deal with this with an 8 yr old, but I think the way to go is by encouragement only, I don't think there's a point in going punitive over it and putting in consequences etc.

Warm and consistent encouragement I think.

Maybe if the kids have been good and deserve a reward you could throw them a little dinner party at home with candles and flowers etc, they can dress up if they're interested and you can too, and you can encourage him to eat with his cutlery as part of the general 'poshness'. If he won't - I think fine. He will, one day. I think it's a case of doing this sort of thing perhaps, and just general encouragement at mealtimes, but just leave it there. That's all that you can usefully do, I think. That, and showing him by role modelling what adults do. One day, that WILL make a difference, but it will come from him, when he is interested in being more grown up.

I do agree that table manners are important. Just have faith in him, he will get there with your consistent encouragement and from seeing your own good manners.

we eat Indian food with our fingers and bread too, but we make sure that we (and the children) only use one hand (as far as possible) and the tips of fingers. Table manners, I think, are a case of what's appropriate and what doesn't upset people around you. So, indian food, bread and finger tips, pizza in front of the telly, two hands and shovel it in, roast dinner at the table, knife and fork and a spoon for the peas, spaghetti, fork and spoon if you're old enough to manage that or spoon once it's been cut up if you're not...and so on.
And I may be old fashioned and repressed and uptight, but I think that manners are important and we do our children a disservice if we don't encourage them to behave in ways that our society finds acceptable.

not read other posts, except last and I agree - have this prob with ds2 & I'm 100% sure it's because he has problems with his fine motor skills.

does this sound likely with your ds? No idea what to do about it though. been told pegging clothes on line good

littleboot I think you are right that this is not acceptable. And he should be using a fork for his rice. I agree about sitting down away from meal times and discussing the issue with him.

I'm thinking about the fine motor skills involved with eating bitty things that slide off your fork too easily. Maybe all these little boys are suffering from standard little boy underdeveloped fine motor system (really usual for little boys). Does he do anything like Knex or meccano or painting models that require fine manipulation?

I just asked my two miscreants why they preferred to use their fingers, and they said "because it feels nicer" (10yr old) and "because food tastes nicer without metal in the way". (I think that's hogwash and shortcut for "we're too lazy" personally, in the case of my two)

I personally think you've got a real problem here LB - I know I said earlier it wasn't an issue but now I know he uses his fingers to eat rice/spag bowl etc - if he were my child I'd be quite concerned and as a parent I wouldn't tolerate it. It would probably put me off my own meal.

I feel you should take his meal away from him and insist that unless he uses cutlery he goes without. Depravation works wonders with kids whether it be food, toys, pocket money etc.

have you asked him why he eats with his hands? he might give you a reason that you can resolve. other than that i would explain what is expected then from the next meal remove his plate of food if he doesn't do what is expected.

also, i think it could get confusing and blur what you're trying to get him to do if you say certain foods can be eaten by hand, others can not. you may end up going the other way with him using knife and for for sandwiches.

personally i wouldn't be so worried, but it's obviously an issue for you.

my fussy skinny 8 yr old likes to eat with his finger as well. Unfortunately 99% of the stuff he eats is dry food and is ideal finger food, so it is a hard habit to break.

Did you say anything when he began using his fingers to eat the rice?

Speccy I didn't read all the posts and I wasn't referring to you or anyone specifically...just a turn of phrase, no offence meant

ooh, this really annoys me with dd1, too (she's nearly 8). She makes such a mess and can't work out how to use her knife and fork together - considering her younger sister with SN eats neatly with cutlery it really winds me up. She always makes a mess of her clothes too.

Haven't found a solution I'm afraid and don't want to bully her at mealtimes...(not too much anyway )

LittleBoot I totally understand where you are coming from. Unfortunately I am a bit short of advice. But I would not tolerate an 8yo eating spag bol with his fingers. TBH I would not tolerate that from my 3yo. DS is 6 and I expect him to eat with a knife and fork for meat and veg type meals, although I do allow fork and spoon for spag bol (after all that is what they give you in an Italian restaurant), curry and rice etc. DS is fairly rubbish with his knife TBH and I think I should have given him one earlier - 3yo DD now has a full sized knife and fork at meals.

Does he understand why it is important? I have seen people tested on their table manners in the job interview process, and would never go out with someone (more than once) if they had horrible manners.
Is there anything you could take away from him (or similar neg consequence) for bad behaviour at the table?

LittleBoot I don't think YABU at all in expecting your 8 year old to eat with a basic regard to table manners. I don't agree with the school of thought that says you can eat like a pig in your own home as long as you eat nicely in public. We still wash, clean our teeth and keep our homes to a reasonable standatd even if we're not going out/expecting guests. It's about having decent manners as default rather than just for best.

But as to what the hell you do about it, I'm afraid I haven't a clue Maybe draw up a minimum acceptable conduct agreement between you and firm sanctions for when he crosses the line, every time? He does seem to have got a lot of control over the issue.

The best bit of advice my MIL ever gave me was not to turn eating into a site of power struggles, because a) unless you resort to suffragette-style force-feeding OR taking your kids' food away by force you can never win - and let's face it who would want to abandon their dignity and self-control to the extent of resorting to those tactics; and b) you would be storing up eating-disorders-type problems for the future.

It clearly already is a power struggle in your house LittleBoot. I guess you need to work out how to defuse it. The answer to that is probably more complexly tangled up in your broader relationship with your ds than just being about mealtimes, I would guess.

DS2 is 8, thin and fussy and eats with his hands Not sure what happened to him because ds1 always uses a knife and fork. He also pulls everything he eats apart with his hands and eats the most tiniest particles.

Unfortunately I don't have any answers but am hoping by the time he is a man he may have grown out of it