In being sick of the way women are endlessly objectfied and treated like pieces of meat?

ha ha
a mumsnet special award to margo&jerry for the phrase "witless fanny waving" surely?

omg check out this "daily mail article"

about scarlett Johansson... is this really 'news'? women are definately guilty of making other women feel like shit.. this is outrageous... ffsss

nevermind all that! lily allens boyfriend is 'seb chew'? look at pic at bottom of daily mail article!!!

"The 25-year-old singer wore a short gingham shirt-dress and a pair of high white 'stripper' style shoes"

The above is part of an article describing Natasha Bedingfield. Who wrote this - a female journalist from the Daily Mail (who ought to face the sack for such a poor article).

Its not just dear ol Natasha (who went onto proudly say in said article that she went knickerless at the Princes Concert for Diana); its the women in journalism who also write about them who are at fault as well.

I think the overall sexualisation of society has become more widespread and mainstream in recent times.

BTW was I the only one who thought that Kylie in her hotpants made her just look cheap instead of sexually alluring (which was I presume the intention)?.

Thanks for sharing the object site. I will pass it on.

Yes, excellent posts M&J and OrmIrian. ITA

I was looking at the Object site yesterday and would urge all people on here who haven't seen it to go and take a look.

YANBU I am also sick of seeing female singers dress like crap to sell records.

Storming posts, M&J and OrmIrian.

If all women were natural, we maybe would be happier with what we have? It just seems that people accept cosmetic surgery so readily when if you really think about what it is....cutting and placing foreign objects in the body or stretching ones face...I can see it can help people feel better (esp in deformity), but alot of the time women are made to feel abnormal for something that is actually normal; like aging or sagging breasts.

YANBU. Its what makes me want to puke when women say 'I'm not a feminist...' like its a dirty word to care about women's rights and how we are perceived in society.

I would like to add, though, that talking about 'sluts' and 'whores' isn't helping matters much. A lot of rappers justify their use of the words 'bitch' 'ho' etc by saying 'I'm not talking about ALL women, just certain types of women'. Lovely. So that's ok then, is it? I don't think women who wear provocative clothing or sleep around are 'slags'...I just wish there were more varied images of women portrayed in the media, so that our youngsters didn't grow up thinking Jordan and an assortment of semi-clad video chicks are inspirational.

sweetcherrypie - I 100% demand the right to critisise anyone (women included) who, by their actions and attitudes, impact on my life. I really don't see what is wrong with that.

And I don't beleive that using your sexuality to get what you want is any more empowering than the 50's housewife who kept herself lovely for her DH so he'd give her enough money to buy a new dress. Having/using your sexuality for your own sake is one thing. Being displayed as a sexual being to sell/promote/titillate random men is quite another. If you want to fck sheep, have sex with every man in your street, using rhubarb as a sex aid, that is entirely your business and I don't personally give a tss. But pretend to be aroused by rhubarb, get your tits enhanced and prance about in a pop video because and only because it turns men on and (more importantly) sells videos, and I will critisise you as much as I like.

No-one acts in isolation. And every public action impacts on everyone else. And things are clearly moving in a direction that I, and obviously many others on here, don't like.

Margoandjerry - hurrah! for your post about "witless fanny waving". Spot on (and a brilliant phrase).

Absolutely agree ELF1981. What perhaps people are quick to forget is there is a world of difference between behaviour and perception.
Except of course in the case of male comb overs - always what they seem - wrong!!

What worries me about some of these posts (and previous ones I have seen on mumsnet) is the automatic assumption that if you have had surgery then you're a slapper.

My sister went through a stage of desperatly wanting breast implants, and I would have been devastated if people automatically assumed that she was a slapper because of it.

margoandjerry: I know the choice argument might seem like a thinly veiled 3rd wave feminism ploy for some, but surely women should not be responsible for creating binary categories for women. Good choice or bad choice.
It is of course a circular debate as, to comment on women critising women, is of course to criticise. . . .!
It is late for such heady debate!

Oh I SEEEEEE.

"Object is an organisation whose primary activity is to campaign against the media objectification of women."

Think this is the webiste someone was referring to earlier.

It is annoying but these women chose to sell themselves in the way they do. I don't have problem with them doing it a long as they're attractive enough

I think if it was just nakedness and all types/ages of women, it wouldn't be so bad. But it usually is women in mags who have been cut up and altered to look a certain generally unacheivable way. How mad would it sound to someone years ago that people cut their faces and stretch them to prevent looking their actual age. Crazy world.

I think I have lost the ability of writing a sensible post now!

Yep, do what you want with your life. But don't ask me to applaud you for it...

oh and don't get me wrong. It's the men I would most like to tackle on this - but ask me to accept these women's choices as valid post-feminist choices. Not likely! Talk about internalising oppression...

Elasticwoman: "If something offends you, complain..."

Yep. I do. I complain in garages about them selling Maxim etc without putting it on the top shelf. I complained to the former Radio Authority about some overtly sexist crap on XFM and got them fined 50 grand and the relevant presenter sacked. I have complained to E4 (a mainstream channel with a young audience including children) for broadcasting soft porn under the guise of music videos.

One of the things that happens though is that we women who do complain get attacked for criticising other women. On this very thread. Ummm yes. If you behave like an idiot, reduce your value to a lecherous glance from a drunken man whose paid 50 quid to grope you, sell your body for pennies despite all the opportunities this country now offers most women, cheapen this society for other women and girls who have to deal with the after-effects of your witless fanny waving, then yes I will criticise you for it.

YANBU I have always thought it wrong that women and girls are often judged on how they look before anything else. Very sad.