to already be fecked off with the smoking ban?!?

Do you remembery Roy Castle, he used to be on the TV programme "Record Breakers"

www.roycastle.org/

He died of lung cancer caused by passive smoking. He worked in night clubs where lots of the customnrs smoked although he was a non smoker himself. This law will protect bar staff from a similar death.

You have my sympathy and I think this is an issue for enviromental. Also technically the customers of most pubs are not allowed to take their drinks on to the street. They have to drink up in licenced premisis.

Oh yes, I remember now, wrote about it at the time. But I think orginal plans exempted private members' clubs, which was fairer. Not many MPs prepared to stand up and say 'enough' rather than court popularity, I guess.

"The post-election consultation on the plans for a partial ban raised enough questions - such as how you define pub food or enforce a one metre exclusion zone from a bar - that the new health secretary felt it was impractical. There was then a well-publicised row in Cabinet with Ms Hewitt pushing for a wider ban and former health secretary, John Reid, demanding ministers stuck to the original policy of a partial ban, which he won. The prime minister was clearly facing the prospect of a continuing row and decided it was such a controversial issue it warranted a free vote in the Commons and we have ended up with the health secretary essentially opposing her own policy"

from bbc website.

From that which I read, it was a proposal to do with establishments where food is served (or some such), and then it went to a "free vote" in the HoC for all MPs with no whip being applied, to see if an outright ban was wished for. And it was.

I don't remember anything about a smoking ban in the manifesto. I do remember a pledge not to introduce top-up fees, though.

Skribble, sympathise with bouncing sounds. In Hammersmith, developers built a huge fuck-you design statement monstrosity next to the tube station. The track is above ground in that area. All that glass and steel magnified the noise horribly - people in surrounding streets were driven half mad by it. Stupid bloody idea putting something with reflective surfaces next to two of the busiest tube lines in the whole city.

Of course, the Ark won several architecure awards. Equally of course it has been half-empty since it was built.

imo two separate issues here
1 - the noise from the bar- what a shame so annoying for u complain to council probably environmental health/noise management

2 - smoking ban - of course government can legislate and tell people what to do, they have a democratic mandate. personally i would rather govt legislated the smoking than the publicans/licensing trade as they have a financil imperative and are unlikely to consider your needs only theirs

Is there anyway the bar can have a smokers area around the back? Hopfully things will be better in the winter, when people decide to give up smoking, rather than get cold. ( unless you live in the north, ofcourse, where people are HARD!)

Smokers who are being noisy are Noisy Smokers , and probably bloody annoying if up until now all the noisy chatter shouting and inane giggling has been contained in the pub.

We had hellish problems with a pub that became a club, I didn't buy a flat opposite it was on the next street but the noise bounced of all the buildings and noise from the loos at the rear carried too.

End result, we put in double glazing at great cost as they had to be sash style units,
the club had to control music levels, glaze entire front of pub with glass bricks behind what had just been single pane (the entire frontage over two floors), double glaze toilet windows and put in a thicker back door.

It's teething problems

There'll be complaints, pub will ensure noise is kept down because it won't want to lose its licence, winter will come and they won't want to get cold, lots of 'em will either give up or stop coming to the pub.

Problem solved.

But get on to the council anyway to give it a nudge along...

Peace Hana! must be awful for you, YOU have my sympathy too!

Perhaps you'll be reprieved when it starts raining divastrop? - I'm hoping )probably naively) that the ban will help people quit as they won't go out for a social fag so often - especially come winter - so hopefully the noise will naturally reduce over time. fingers crossed for you.

hangon lilolilmanchester
I have a great deal of sympathy for the op, devil's advocate if you will. And things change - we live under heathrow's flight path and flights are increasing all the time, and now talk of a 3rd runway and a 6th terminal before the 5th is even open for business......so I do have sympathy

hang on hana. I have little sympathy with people who choose to live near bars/stations/flight paths/schools then complain about the nuisance factor. BUT people who live near otherwise quiet bars/pubs/restaurants now have the noise of people standing outside to smoke. So there's been a change in the situation since they bought their properties. So they do have my sympathy. Unlike the other moaning minnies who complain that people park outside their houses to catch the tram. When the road doesn't belong to them and the tram station was there way before they bought their houses.

I don't think Diva is being unreasonable at all, I'd be hacked off in her shoes. I thought Skribble was unreasonable talking about noisy smokers - you inevitably get more noise if people are outdoors.

I do sympathise with you, divastrop, but now I know DH wont't get an asthema atack after being in a pub, I really can't say anything against the ban at the moment.

It's still worth mentioning it to EH if the noise persists after a few days - I'm sure the pub won't want to miff off the neighbours. It may be possible to find a solution - is there a beer garden they can go to for their fix which isn't so close to the street?

It may be teething problems with people not necessarily realising how loud they can sound at night.

??? sorry how am I being unreasonable??? I am not OP. Perhaps my post was worded badly and not clear?

also, there is another side of the arguement that you chose to live near a bar

quite like the argument given to those that live under the flight path who moan about increased flights, noise, etc etc

Don't think anyone's being unreasonable - if your child can't get to sleep, then that's unreasonable. Every right to contact Env. Health.

I only know this as I temped at a local authority last year in the consumer protection directorate. Twas a lot of work to be ready for the ban from that side of things as well .

Skribble, you are being a bit unreasonable. If you force people outdoors, noise will go up. Doesn't have anything necessarily to do with them being particularly loud, just having a critical mass of people outside instead of inside. Entirely predictable result of the ban. And unavoidable, what's the government going to do, fit silencers on people standing outside pubs?

Complain to the Council - environmental health are primed to deal with this.

The ban has been in place up here in Scotland for ages now, and it is honestly the best thing that has ever happened. Fresh clean air whichever venue you go to, and no more meals being spoiled by smokers. Trust me - we had the usual moans and groans when it first came in, but now it works well.