to feel uneasy about my son reading Enid Blyton books

I disagree with you Armadillo regarding age. If your child is old enough to read, then they are old enough to understand an explanation about name calling and subtle racism. Referring to someone as a chinky (not an expression I had ever heard before this discussion, by the way...must be an english thing) can be explained in the same way as calling someone fatty or ugly or stinky. When the child is older they can learn the history and nuances of chinky vs fatty, but I do think it's a concept that even a 4 or 5 year old can grasp since the name calling is already present on the playground at that age.

I hear what you are saying and agree on hte need to expose children to these ideas so you can explain how they are wrong.

I just don't think that exposing them to EB at a young age is the only way to do this.

I also think that in EB it goes beyond calling a character by a racist name to much more subtle and ingrained forms of racism etc. And I do think that grasping this is beyond the reach of young children.

Yes a child can understand that treating someone badly on the basis of their colour is wrong, but that is a much more at the simpliler end of these attitudes and it is the more subtle racism etc that I would seek to avoid.

Can I add another voice to the "don't ban books brigage" please? I read EB books when I was young and don't even recall getting a sense of racism, sexism or sneering at poor people. I do remember that families were always depicted as dad works, mum at home with the kids, 2.4 children, one girl one boy, which struck me cos it was so different from my situation, but that was it. I agree with the concept that we can project thoughts on to our children that just don't exist in their heads. If any child of mine picked up something unpleasant from a book (using a racist term or sneering at someone because they didn't have smart clothes) I would correct them, because that's my job. Bringing up my children, and guiding them in their attitudes is up to me (and dh)

Expose your child to it in a small way (EB is probably pretty good in this respect) and then use it to teach them. If they never see the ugly in this world, they may just grow up thinking it doesn't exist anymore.
Have a friend here in Los Angeles who drives her teenage son the long way to school just so they don't have to go through a poorer part of town where there are run down houses and homeless on the street. Seems to me that it's kind of the same thing as keeping EB away from your child so that they don't hear racist terms. These things exist in the world and better to have an educated discussion about them with your child than pretending that it's not there.

I haven't read all the posts, but it seems to me that if your child is old enough to understand most of story and is even trying to read it themselves, they should be old enough to understand that certain words may be hurtful to people and that they shouldn't use them. I say talk to your child. Just my opinion.

"If you start cherrypicking bad parts, you ought to consider the good parts as well"

But I can't introduce my child to one without the other.

I don't see how that argument holds. Almost any book no matter how appalling will have some good parts, even if just a paragraph or a sentance. That doesn't justify the entire work.

And secondly EB is not the only writer for children who contains these 'good' ideas of right and wrong. By not letting children read these books its not like they won't ever find other books with the same 'good' ideas in but without the sexism/racism/classism.

And these ideas are so ingrained in the book just changing a name or similar doesn't remove these things.

Yes Penelope was more than a bit incoherent. The point I was trying to make is to give an "adult equivalent" for each scenario.

So formulaic = mills & boon
Limited in terms of language = Sun which has a reading age of 10

Yes they are childrens books therefore you expect a limitation but they are more limited than most children's books IMO

The main point I was trying to make is that parents are giving children EB in a sentimental haze when there are piles of better and nicer books out there. Nothing I have read from anyone on here has led me to believe that that is an incorrect assessment.

I just want to address Twinklemegan, who I quote " It would be my attitude and those of others that turned that into a racist remark. And I'm sure it would reflect badly on me if someone were stupid enough to take it seriously..."

Twinklethis is NOT just about your own perceptions; it's also about the society you live in. Unfortunately, the term chinky is a racist remark, whether you choose to believe so or not. It's not about YOU finding the term offensive, it's about the CHINESE people in our society that find it offensive. As for people, "stupid enough to take it seriously"I wonder if you always believe it is the victim/target of the word, that bears the responsbility of just shrugging the meaning off, because surely that is not on?

As for the censorship issue--I don't know if that is the right method either, but to simply sweep aside the issue as if only those being offended are being PC mad or worse, stupid, is quite a sad reflection on how little society HAS changed.

I sympathize with the original poster, I would not know what to do, but I do know I would NOT just think her child is just a child and we can just gloss over these terms.

Quattro, the fact that they have a reading age of 10 is surely the point.......they are written for children FGS!

Funny how people pick out bits of EB that are dubious such as her choice of names for characters and ignore any positive messages - stolen goods are restored to owners, kidnapped children found, children live with and work with each other to achieve things, animals are treated well and cared for, "baddies" caught and interestingly for me, a girl who demanded (and got!) equality with boys. If you start cherrypicking bad parts, you ought to consider the good parts as well .

to the OP (can't read all discussion, sorry)

its hard, isn't it? I DO avoid her, tbh, because I don't want those words in my house. If I heard the words or those sexist/racist attitudes on tv, I would turn the tv off.

I don't see much point in sentimentalising Books. People get SO worked up about this, its ok to limit tv but OH no NOT books, fgs.

Its a hard one. I think she is a very predicatable writer and actually kids like that. Really, for the age group she aims at, she is a very good writer.

She also has some highly offensive terminology that I really feel uncomfortable exposing my kids to. It IS offensive, the fact that people were less enlightened then excuses THEIR behaviour but not ours. If I were a publisher I'd have no qualms about producing an expurgated edition. Its just a BOOK, fgs.

Where did he get the book? Surely there must be some enid blytons that don't have this crap in it?

When they are a bit older such books might be fine, but at the age enid blyton is actually aimed at-no. Its normalising some really nasty ideas and terminology.

Book burning time it is then

"The magic faraway tree" was my favourite book as a kid and i couldnt wait to get it for my son... he is 6 and although he only reads small bits at a time he thinks its great. I have already started collecting other enid blyton books aswell for him.

read on was a good discussion last night

Ok, admittedly I have not read all 200+ messages in this post, but having read a fair number of the early ones, I'm a little saddened at how many people think it's not an issue that a young child could be reading a book that has terms in it that we now see as racist. Of course, in Enid Blyton's time this was the norm. But surely, we've moved on from those stultifying, homogenic times? There's a reason why we now see the term chinky as racist, and there's good reason to teach children NOT to use it. If you don't say anything, because you believe your child is too young to pick up on the racial connotations, then you are basically saying its OK to use the word. When will you teach them NOT to use the word then? If they had a friend who went around calling people this name, would you stop them? What's the difference between the two? Books are NOT harmless.

For those who think that it's PCism gone overboard to not use the word chinky, then you need to reconsider. Is it really to much to ask in our diverse society today, for all members to be regarded with equal respect?

Admitally Enid Blyton lived 50 years ago when people didn't know better.

No Eid Blyton lived before we all got turned in to a bunch of guardian reading tree hugging liberals that the PC police had had a pop at.
ITS A WORD, it is not being used in a "racial" way, let your poor child read the books and don't make it in to something it is not.

oooh i love the adventure series with jack lucyann dinah and phillip. not forgetting of course kiki the parrot and bill smugs. ive read theisland,castle,river, sea and ship of adventure. still need the vally and the circus of adventue.

I started a thread a while back about the name changes in The Enchanted Wood, Fanny is now Franny, Bessie is Beth etc.

The new ones are rewritten, I would imagine Chinky is no longer in The Wishing Chair. Did he really have slitty eyes? I don't remember.

I started to read it to DD, almost desperate for her to be 'transported' in the way that I was but, although she quite likes it, she's not that bothered, and I have to admit I find reading them a bit like watching paint dry and got very irritable. Hardly a pleasant shared experience.

I don't think there's anything wrong with parents getting nostalgic and wanting their children to experience what they did. I don't think the odd book is likely to give a child a skewed view of the world, you can always put them right after all.

Actually there was a book called The Put Em Rights.

I won't be reading them any, but I wouldn't say they can't. I will just encourage them to read wonderful books too.

LOL, my nickname at primary school was "Chink-eyed-goofy-git", but when reading the wishing chair to my children it never occurred to me that Chinky the pixie was a slur on the Chinese. I think that's hogwash personally - it's just the kind of word EB was keen on - her books are full of pixies and brownies called Jinks and Binky and Winky. I disagree with Quattrocento about the writing being poor - they are formulaic and simple because that is what young children can understand and enjoy. Of course it's a bit irksome reading them as an adult, but really, the stories are amazing and full of magic and wonder, and they can be just a little bit frightening too, which thrills my children, they LOVE the wishing chair and the faraway tree. I edit out the more glaring gender stereotyping and the child-beating bits, and anything else I consider inappropriate. When ds1 starts reading them for himself - which he will pretty shortly - I will just explain to him that some people have attitudes which were more acceptable in the past (although even then not to everyone) and are quite rightly frowned upon now. He already understands that some parents smack their children, but that his parents think that is wrong, and that some people believe in god/heaven and others believe in reincarnation etc. I don't think the average child would have any trouble taking the more non-PC elements of these stories with a large pinch of salt while still enjoying the magic and the huge imaginative journey that something like the wishing chair represents.

I think it's very easy but a bit pointless to be snobbish about children's fiction and the 'quality of the writing'. I prefer Charles kingsley personally, I can't wait for mine to be old enough to appreciate it, but at the moment EB is exactly on their level and has really helped to make them love books and stories. Which is good enough for me.

this reminds me last time we went to London. My boys also love this book and I read it to them uncensored, but last time we went to UK were were on a London-bound train with the usual wonderful racial mix, and I got out the book to read them and just couldn't say the name, so I had to whisper to them in German I was changing it & I'd explain why later, so Chinky has now become Minxy, our cat's name. I nearly died tho. No way could I utter the word 'chinky' without worrying of a. mortally offending someone, b. looking like an ignorat racist or c. getting beaten up.

but these stories, Wishing chair and magic faraway tree are really wonderful, and as others have said, a learning experience if you want on how we should behave towards others.

I also loved the Island/Castle/River etc of adventure series, but obv. these are for older ones.

Does anyone remember the story where I think the boy was called Jack and his parents were missing presumed dead & went to live with wicked aunt & uncle & he ran away to an island with some misc. kids and a cow? I loved that one & read many many times

I have only read the op so forgive me if i missed something but i wouldn't feel uneasy i would let my kids read enid Blyton, i read all her books as a child am am not in any way discriminitave or racistand she tells some fantastic stories.

Relax.

Let your son read Enid Blyton, let him enjoy it, and then explain to him that it was written in an era when people were much less sensitive to discriminatory behaviour than today - that the world has moved on and that we have learnt better than to discriminate racially, sexually etc, although it is still unfortunately to be found. This is a much better learning experience for your son than outright censorship.

Still going then? Goodasgold, missed your post as went to bed. Good points, especially about it being a basis for discussion.

Do you not think that the EB books appeal so much to children because they are so formulaic?

Young children find repitition comforting....think of them watching the same films over and over again, or asking for the same book.

It is all part of normal development isn't it?

sorry, this keyboard is a mess... matrying=trying!