to think mumsnetters have overreacted

No Desi, everybody did not use that expression.

It was only used by white people about chinese people. And not by all white people by any means.

I agree with you that labelling someone racist who makes a thoughtlessly racist remark is not a good way forward.

But abandoning racist nomenclature IS a good way forward.

If it has drawn people's attention to unfortunate use of language then I think it was a debate worth having.

FWIW, I'm not suggesting that the original poster is racist. More like unaware of the offensive connatations of the word.

The regrettable part is that when these were pointed out, there was an attempt made to justify its use.

The defence that a Chinese friend doesn't find it offensive is laughable. There are always exceptions to the rule. It is wise to avoid language that could cause offence.

I don't think that mumsnetter have overreacted at all.

I think it was an over-reaction, but this is the way the world has moved on in the last twenty-odd years.

I'm in my forties, and we used to use that expression all the time. Every body did.

I agree that the expression was used thoughtlessly, but no one should imply that the poster was inherently racist by extension.

That way lies a witch hunt!

potoroo, you have just made the point i was going to make about the shortening of names, but you put it much better than i would have But i guess that the OP was misguided by her use of the word and maybe wont use it again as she didnt realise it was offensive, if you see what i mean. It is definately not a word i would use though.

I guess by definition things kick off on here as we read something and have our say, then scroll down and realise that 50 other people said the same thing, then i guess it seems a bit like a witch hunt, but thats MN - don't ya just luv it

I would have said that 100x and I were as one on just about every issue under the sun - except perhaps whether or not Heathcliff is romantic.

But I don't think I entirely agree with you here old thing. Points of view can be debated or otherwise thrashed out. Don't think racist insults can be robustly absorbed as part of life's rich pattern. It doesn't work like that. It is too harmful.

You're not reading the thread properly, M2B. There are no end of reasons being given why the word is offensive, regardless of the intentions of the speaker. That poster may have been ignorant of the connotations of the word before she used it, but that doesn't mean she (and others) shouldn't be pulled up and be made aware of the origins (and the offensiveness) of the word.

Read the posts, be educated, and pass onto your children a better attitude towards racial language than was apparent in the past.

Yes I see what you're saying Boco. NOBODY in this house is allowed to use racist or homophobic language, and I am absolutely NOT making excuses for anybody that does use them. (cf. v. pompous conversation with ds1 on the use of the word 'gay' which is a common term of insult by 9 yo who don't know what it means).

BUT is the fact that you have been offended grounds for anything? You see I think not, other than the fact that you have been insulted. Is being insulted a terrible thing? Yes, it's not very nice at all. Are you entitled to not be insulted? Not really.

Like the Islamic cartoon for instance. Yes, that's insulting. Should it have been produced? Yes, why not, someone drew the cartoon and wanted to have a pop at Islam. Was it a nice thing to do? No. Should it have been banned? No.

Then they should apologise unreservedly.....that argument is bollocks !!!' I didn't mean to be racist....' You can be racist even if you don't intend to be...

I'm a bit confused about whether or not we're agreeing. I think being offended can be a really big deal in some cases - if it's constant and shapes your self esteem and self respect - as with racist or sexist or homophobic comments - then its a bid deal. It'd be hard to persuade someone dealing with those kind of insults that it wasn't a big deal.

People who freak out because of minor comments or people just not agreeing with them - well i agree that this is part of life and people need to deal with that and get overthemselves.

Oh YABU. To echo the words of just about every other poster.

Not that the majority is necessarily right of course. In fact quite often it's wrong although not of course in this case! (ironic).

Look at it in the historic context. Fifty years ago, it was quite common for white english people to refer to black people as sambo. Let's avoid the nigger analogy. Just think about the word sambo. Or golliwog (oh so affectionately shortened to wog).

Fast forward fifty years and say any of those words in the workplace. You'd be out on your ear in nanoseconds. Chinky is just the same.

And please don't give me that daily mail reading stuff about blackboards. That's just a ridiculous example used to justify insidiously racist terms like chinky.

I woud be really shocked if some one said to me they were going to the chinky

I am sure the OP on the other thread wasn't meaning to be racist, but she and the others who have agreed with her should now, after reading this realise that it is insulting and a word they should maybe not use from now on

hello potoroo

I know EXACTLY what you mean on both counts (this is my real married name, I am as white as they come and all)

It is NOT overeacting for the nth time...it IS racist...listen to what the chinese man said to one of the other posters mum2be...
You cannot plead ignorance or lack of intent..if you do not believe it IS racist then by default that MAKES you racist.

I hadn't read your last post. I have now. I think we agree with each other really. My thing about being offended isn't really relevant here, it's a side issue to the central conversation about racism.

I personally don't think it's a great crime if somebody is offended. That's all and society at large has decided that it is.

suzywong - DH is one of about 5 Chinese people lving in our predominantly white town. He is often mistaken for working in the local Chinese takeaway. Certainly not a problem we faced in Sydney...

Must admit, I do like to confuse people by spelling my last name then explaining it is Chinese (I am as white as they come) - some people cannot get their heads around why I would have a Chinese surname. Hee hee.

DH is Chinese and has been on the receiving end of 'chinky' as an insult - so where we come from (Australia), it is an offensive term.

We've never heard it used to describe a Chinese takeaway where we live in the UK, but if it was a common term without racist connotations, then he wouldn't be offended - IYSWIM.

Its like suzywong said - in Australia the cricket teams are affectionally referred to as Aussies, Poms, Kiwsi, Windies (West Indies) and Pakis - Australian's just have a tendancy to shorten names. But on moving to the UK we found that Paki is an offensive term, and we would never dream of using it.

Like Happy Daddy said - common sense...

Yes Boco of course I've been offended before, and of course I have stuck up and said what and why I've found it offensive and why I want it to stop. But I don't think I can legistlate the world around the things I find acceptable that's all, nor can anybody else. Say your piece and fight your corner, that's what it comes down to. And do it every time.

YAWN

and i need to get back on track. Language is so loaded that by using these words superiority / inferiority is being reinforced every time. Thats why we shouldnt use them anymore. Boring it may be but thats how it is.

i mean i havent had experience of either so is hard to compare

So your beef with people being 'offended' all the time, is more about people who are offended by random comments or slight rudeness etc is it? Rather that people being offended by actual racism.

I actually think these discussions are important. It's about language, so many people don't realise how important the words they use are - people still talking about spastics and puffs and pakis without really thinking that they are being offensive. Those words change the way people are seen, and see themselves. It is important, and if someone is offended by being called something, then they should be able to express it, we should be able to take that on without the pc is boring / don't take yourself so seriously type arguments.

"It's a slippery slope mother2b. Chinky food today, Chinky person tomorrow (the two are inextricably linked)"

says dejags

and she is right, and that is why my dh used to taken for a food delivery man in the street he'd lived in for 10 years. Chinky is offensive because it supports and contains the conception that Chinese people and Chinese Catering Business are one and the same. And yes it's not the most heinous misconception in the world but if it could be laid to rest then I for one would be happier.

And it's all about me, let's face it

Yes maybe, what i mean is a black person may well reel from the comment, and feel it as a blow to the stomach. Or the parent of a black child might. Im not sure i have had experience of either, but i wouldnt ask them not to be offended. Okay what im saying is being hurt verbally can hurt. Ok maybe not as much as full on physical blow to the head. damn ive been sidetracked