Telling DS2's headteacher to 'Get a grip'!!

I agree that physical force is very difficult for schools to use - if a child of 6 refuses a reasonable request - there must be more going on here. Do you know how long the child was reasoned with? As a parent governor we have been told how extremely careful staff must be before they lay a finger on a child.

I would work with the school and get to the bottom of it. The quickest solutions in schools seem to be when school and home work together and respect each other.

Ours has a clause about if it sets a precedent for disruptive behaviour (something like that has been a while since I looked at it ) may come under that (just about?)if it is constant?

I work in a SN school and we are allowed to restrain /move children BUT we have been trained and parents are always informed of the incident

Is Ms Woodhouse the one who used to be on telly training dogs?

I think the OP might try to clarify the law on physical co-ercion of pupils. I have recently taught in a special school for ebd kids (emotional/behavioural disturbed) where it was ok for kids to be physically restrained where necessary, but needed to be done by specially trained staff. There was a classroom assistant who used to be a prison officer! I don't know whether it was legal just because it was a Special school, or because the staff were specially trained in safe methods of restraint.

It may be a moot point whether the mother should be called (although I personally find it very wet of the school) but there is no excuse for not punishing the child in school by loss of playtime or some other similar sanction.

Doesn't matter how "nice" the area is - children will still test the boundaries in any school.

How long had your ds2 been in the playground for on these occasions? There simply must be something else going on here.

Meant to add that never at any point in these procedings did we call the child's parents - but just wanted to make the point that if a child refuses to do something, there is a limit to what the school can do to make them!
I would be more concerned about WHY your child has done this. It is not very common and surely indicates that there is something else going on, either with him or with his school experience. How the school handles it is less of a concern than finding out what the problem is.

Next time the school call you, you should march him into the class, pull down his trousers and spank him on his bottom in front of his fellow pupils. Hopefully he won't do him again because he want the school to call you.

So what if you were at work in the middle of a meeting? I'd love to hear Xenia's views on this. How on earth are mothers supposed to go out to work if schools can't take responsibility for controlling six year olds in their care and they could at any time be called a) to discipline their children and b) to take a week off school because their six year old has been suspended?

Surely there's more to this than meets the eye? What does OFSTED say about this unusual and remarkably ineffectual policy? What do the governors say about it?
(What would the local press say about it?) Are there any other factors involved sarah?

Sorry, just came across this..

as someone quite rightly pointed out:

• your son can't be left alone outside unsupervised
• the rest of your son's class can't be left INSIDE unsupervised
• your son cannot be physically forced/carried inside.

I have had a child in my class who used to do this quite regularly, and it is a nightmare. As mentioned above, there is very often not a "spare" person around to help out, especially in small schools. You can be quite sure the school would have tried speaking sternly/cajouling/persuading/anything to get your son to come in. But if he refuses, physical force is not an option. Not saying that your son does this, but I have seen a HUGE difference between children's behaviour in and out of school - a lot of parents would be amazed at the difference I think.

"A firm hand on his arm accompanied with 'Come on Ben in you come now' would without doubt have the desired effect."

• firstly some parents would sue over the firm hand
• secondly - do you really think so??!!!

Although it sounds on the surface ludicrous, I think this highlights the very real dilemnas faced daily by members of the teaching profession. If a child refuses to move, there isn't anything a member of staff can do without physically engaging with the child, which understandably many teachers aren't willing to do. As someone else pointed out, teachers have been suspended and investigated over physically restraining children who have been actually attacking them! So god knows what could happen in a case like this! You also need to factor in that while the teacher is dealing with your one child, it might mean that 29 others are momentarily left unsupervised..... and if anything happens with them , you can guess whose career is on the line....

Precisely, sparklesandwine - I'd observed the SAHMs got all the phone calls too. So I decided to try being a hermit for a while, until the school found they could deal with DS2's nose bleeds on their own without sending him home

My DS4 was an absolute nightmare up until about 2 years ago but in his first year at school, we had terrible problems with him. At one point the headmaster had to try and get him out from under a table and he just wouldn't come, in fact I could write a list of the horrible things he's done at school. The school however did deal with it and I did offer my support and to all intense and purposes I actually became quite good friends with his teachers and headmaster.
I found that my ds4 knew exactly what was going on, knew all the right buttons to press and to a certain extent, I have to say, he was doing it, wilfully for effect.
Although, I very, very rarely give any of our boys a clout and my dh never, ever does, for some reason they respect the fact that if dad's got the arse then that means BIG trouble, so I made a point of giving all his teachers dh's mobile number while ds4 was in the meeting and told them that if he played up they were to ring that number straight away. They never rang that number, not once! in fact all they had to do was threaten to ring it and ds4 was like putty in their hands.
I have since found out though (ds4 is nearly 15 now) that he had a terrible personalty clash with his very first teacher in reception and she spent all her time picking on him (I always disliked her but didn't realise what was going on) and that basically set the stage for the whole of his primary school years ...

desiderata - it may be a natural reluctance but that doesn't mean he is right to be refusing. My children are naturally reluctant to go to school at all but they still go. I think the OP needs to get to the bottom of why her DS doesn't want to go in in case there is an underlying reason, and if not make it 100% clear that he has to do certain things whether he wants to or not. If he absolutely refuses to move, the school cannot make him. The OP can. I know it sounds absurd but there we are.

I reality someone will have to stand with the little boy until he moves. If this is an ongoing issue, the school may very well not have the 'spare' person.

I know that sounds grim, but if someone is with this little lad, they *can't be with someone else.

The teachers cannot move him, if he choses not to move one of them will have to stay with him.

I realise that going in is a major inconvenience. But the same is true for the school , if you don't go in, someone will have to stand with him.

For me, it boils down to one thing. It absolutely beggars belief that a six year old can be suspended. I mean, of course he doesn't want to go back to class after playtime. It seems a perfectly natural reluctance in a child so young.

Yes i agree Hallgerda you can do that and my friend did to some sucess but it doesn't really find the route of the problem - of WHY he doesn't want to go back into school

Similar incidents have happend at our school and it all happens far to easily that they phone the parents - but I have noticed that at our school they only phone the SAHM to come and sort it out if the parent works then they manage to deal with it in school

The teachers cannot physically move him. Even if you give permission. The new guidelines do not cover this - there is no danger of physical harm in standing in the playground. And they cannot leave him unsupervised outside either.

What does your son say when you ask him why he won't come in?

If the school sends every 6 yo child home for not leaving the playground 3 times they will lose every child who works out that they would rather stay home and play everyday than go into the classroom. If the only way of dealing with the situation the school can think of is calling in the mother then they have serious problems with discipline altogether - 6 yos are by nature challenging - not coming in a playtime is hardly the worst of it - how do they deal with other behaviour - I am appauled that they are prepared to suspend a 6yo over such a minor breach. they are also demonstrating to the other children their complete inability to cope with what i would consider a normal challenge by a 6 yo.

sarah573, have you tried not answering the phone? The school would then have to deal with the matter.

bless him what an awful thing for you to have to deal with - surely this will affect his view of school from an early age

Unfortunatley this type of incident is more common now as school's do not want to take responsibility for anything incase it comes back on them that they have grabbed his arm, hurt him, forced him to do something etc etc its more for their own legal reasons than lack of control I would imagine

However if you are concerend (which you obviously are) then I would maybe suggest having a formal meeting with the head and his teacher so that you can discuss some kind of future plan for him like a sticker chart in class and if he does well then at the end of the week you buy him a treat - this will also encourage the home/school connection which they all love to harp on about

I think that a formal warning at that age is very harsh. I have 2 children at school and have never come across this

I hope you work something out Sarah

If it is always the same playtime, is there a particular subject that he is trying to avoid?

yanbu
be careful. i know dd has sn and is at an sn school so a bit different. but she played up in primary. I asked the school to "punish" her(sorry I know that is the wrong word) but they said they couldn't so the behaiviour continued. It was only when she went to secondry that it got sorted.

I don't know how far the law protects teachers if the kid is merely being difficult. Even then, there will be a need to use "reasonable" force.

When I was a kid, parents were almost never brought in during the school day, from other threads it does seem to be the fashion now.

We have cover for this sort of thing, but I still don't get how the schools can cope with parents who simply can't come and "deal with" the child.
My guess is that as the OP says, they "get a grip".

I think you have taken the right steps with your DS, but I wonder if you should follow it up with the school regarding their lack of discipline in situations such as this.