To think the army shouldn't be allowed to 'avertise' in schools?

Interesting point DWP

I know a family whose son was killed in the Falklands - their whole view changed overnight and they are massively anti-Iraq war now

jofeb04, Sawbridgeworth...
The armed forces make a pitch to kids, in my experience they start off with "gee whizz, big toys, etc", but along the way you get told in no uncertain terms that this is not an easy option. Also in the cadet forces one is obliged to do Remembrance Day parades. You get to see a lot of people with bits missing, and the lists of dead on the monuments should get the message through.
I can describe in some detail, the effects of being in a burning Spitfire, you won't like it...

As for pacifism, the sentiment in Britain in the late 1930s was overwhelmingly against war, against anyone, for any reason. The USA was even more so.

Sadly DCs school has CCF. We always had utter contempt for kids who couldn't shoot straight, read maps whilst running, or even march better than scouts.

Xenia, I'm not sure what your point is in linking to the Scotland story - "Worst performing small country in Europe" - do you actually have a point, or are you just anti-Scotland?

Agree with DWP and custy

Good quote from the article linked to earlier:

"At present, it appears that the armed forces are getting preferential treatment in terms of access to schoolchildren, some as young as 14, to the detriment of other public services and business career opportunities. That cannot be right."

This is the issue which was voted on, not whether or not we should have an army, nor whether children should consider joining up as a career option.

Xenia, FYI, this was a vote taken by the largest teaching union in Scotland. It was not 'Scottish teachers' across the board. Yes, I would imagine that a disproportionate number of this union's members will be left-wing and probably pacifist too - it is the furthest left of the teaching unions in Scotland.

BTW I'm Scottish and I heartily agree with Xenia about separatism for Scotland - if we were separate, we would not have gone to war in Iraq.

Sorry, Primark, but I profoundly disagree with you. In fact, you're making me quite angry at the moment.

There are women on here with families in the armed forces. I'm proud of them, very proud of them.

xenia rarely contributes to the "actual" discussion point i find

well suebaroo if your child came home al enamoured with the forces life - that being outdoor persuits. rather than the participation in wars.

rock climbing - rather than patriotism
quad biking rather than truth justice and the liberation of the free world from the terrors as defined by the partic govt of the day.

i think you would find the processes sickening. that the army recruits in schools is repulsive IMO.

the careers advisor presumably ?? would say the pros and cons of any job.

Army recruitment is a lecture about how utterly fabbo it is.

This is nothing new. The Forces recruited in schools when I was at school - and that wasn't yesterday! No one has to join up and at least nowadays recruits don't have to sign away nine yrs of their life at the age of 16/18.

Yes, the Army Recruitment man as the child-catcher.

"lollies, sweeties, ice cream, alllll freee today!"

Don't think it works quite like that.

Not at all. The Falklands War was very important. There is no one view in the UK and some people seal themselves so much off from normal people that they think everyone is pacifist or anti nuclear weapons or whatever.

(On Scotland news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/6739007.stm worst health etc it was announced today)

bu to do it in school? to vulnerable children. without parental consent.

and be dishonest about it too.

like its a big adventure

army recruits more because they need more people - Army personnel 110,000 Navy and Airforce about 40,000 each.

recognising that the education system fails some - lots of children is not a good enough reason to recruit them in this manner IMO.

quite frankly i dont think anone should be allowed in the army until they are at least 21.

I think you are right about armed forces snobbery, Custy.

I was once on an RAF flight to Croatia. Most amused to see how the handsome RAF crew put their pinnies on and turned into trolley dollies once we'd taken off. My companions also showed me how you can spot a Guards officer out of uniform (red jeans).

TDWP - really, I think calling ll's BIL a "terrorist" is really very offensive, very offensive indeed.
he most certainly is nothing of the kind. what an outrageous suggestion.

yep, you are being unreasonable.
I am a pacifist from a long line of conscies btw.
you can't blame the army for the current war in Iraq.
plus Iraq is clearly not the only place the British army is currently fighting.
the British army has been responsible for helping some pretty just causes you know.
to object to the armed forces per se because of one particular war is a little simplistic.
what about the FAlklands?
what about Kosovo? who do you think actually makes up the UN peacekeeping forces?

DWP - good question. I have often thought that it is a very sad reflection on society that every year so very many functionally illiterate and inumerate young people are produced by the state education system, but since they are I don't think they can be blamed for taking a career option where they will be supported and trained, and I don't think it is reasonable to criticise the armed forces for taking them on and often helping them make something of themselves. I also can't see why there is an issue with recruiting in schools. Recruits under 18 require paerental permission to join, and recruits over 18 are presumeably old enough to decide for themselves.

dd1 (9) has spoke about the army and I think it's great to have ambition, but her godfather (who she is very close to) was in the army until she was 3 and he is always telling her it isn't fun and trying to put her off.

there isn't an advocate sent routinely into schools for the navy or RAF. MY dad was in the RAF. If my son was going to join the arned forced that is where i would direct him

i'll tell you why and await the onslaught of noooooo " how dare you"

there is an armed forces snobbery. excluding officers, the army is the bottom of the pile, thats why they recruit the way they do.