To think the army shouldn't be allowed to 'avertise' in schools?

hc, I'm not against armies or anything but there's obviously a case to be made for being neutral like Switzerland and some would say it's better to be conquered than to fight. If we disbanded our armed forces I doubt the French or Americans would invade. I can't really see Russia doing it because France and Germany would stop them so yes, we probably could manage without any armed forces in the UK but I'm not the best person to argue it as I can see the financial and business advantages of wars, the reasons they can be good politically etc etc

Those of you who are annoyed at the way the army is advertised, how naïve are you? Of course they have to advertise the good bits, they?re not exactly going to sell it if they say ?you?ll be going to horrible places, you won?t see your family for months and months and there?s quite a good chance you might die?. It?s like any profession, they all have their downsides, nursing, police, law, but people enter these professions for the positives and the negatives are soon made clear to them.

Am also curious to know whether those who wouldn?t want their children joining the army would be happy to get rid of the armed forces altogether or whether they?re just nimbyss, ie it?s ok for someone else?s son to die for my country as long as it isn?t mine?

Indeed they do cammelia. Men who feel they 'got out of' doing national service in cyprus by coming over to the UK or wherever still have to do it if they ever return - even for just a holiday.

They have to do a minimum of 1 month - age is not necessarily a barrier either.

Agree with all haarpsi's points.

Nothing wrong with promotion of careers in school - whatever the profession (well, there might be one or two very old professions that might just be unacceptable )

We forget that a lot of EU countries still have national service.

I am genuinely interested by the way.
I ain't forces material, I don't have the fitness, or the mental strength or the discipline but I am bloody glad some people have and I am bloody grateful to them.
I think being snidey about the forces is tasteless imo. have a pop at the government by all means, but have a look at the newspapers. this is not the time to stand down the army imo.

haarpsichordcarrier, I'd love to see if you get an answer to that. Other than this. Which isn't really an answer, because I'm not who you're talking to. But still. um...

for those of you who oppose military service and would be heartbroken if your child signed up, can I just ask - do you think we shouldn't have an army at all? do you think it is unnecessary? do you think we should not be involved in any peacekeeping or other missions? and what if we were invaded or any of our territories?

I would be extremely unhappy about the cadets going to my children's school and attempting to engage them in any military training. my children do not need the 'discipline' of cadets, they receive discipline from their parent as I deem appropriate. I wouldn't be 'proud' to see any of my children serve their country. I'd be absolutely heartbroken. I'd be happy for them to do community service, but I absolutely oppose military service and would rather my children left the country than join any of the forces.

when they grow up I hope I will have brought them up to not want to join the forces. If they do any of that annoying 'thinking for themselves' thing then thats fine - when they are old enough to make an informed decision and if they take my opinion into account. I do not want my 14 year old brainwashed by HM forces thank you very much. all the advertising shows happy team mates dressing wounds and helping little foreign babies, not people dying horribly and unnecessarily or civilians carrying their dying children onto the streets.

Just wanted to correct comments about the Territorial Army (and the Royal Navy Reserve and the RAF Auxiliary), these are reserve forces and not the same as the CCF. The reserves recruit at the same age as the regular forces but its a career you do alongside your civilian job.

I know from personal experience that there has been (and continues to be) compulsory call out for reservists both for Afganistan and for Iraq. Whilst it used to be the case that one could join the reserves and think "they'll never call me up unless it gets really desperate" it seems that successive governments have recognised that reservists are defence "on the cheap" in that we don't get pensions, we don't get paid when we're not actually training or on duty and up until very recently, we don't get any post-combat support when they send us home. Up until a year ago (when my personal knowledge gets a bit thinner) TA recruits were being compulsorarily called up and sent to Iraq straight out of basic training.

I know this also happened to regular forces too but everyone knows about them and the "there would never be compulsory call up for TA" is simply wrong, now.

Would like to add that I think the Cadets is a very good idea and would like to see stuff like this trawled round schools.

Seems bizarre to me to have only one recruiter come in. Why not just make it careers fair kind of thing where you can get information about all sorts of trades, about what you can do it you don't go to college.

Agree with Custardo. People used to join up because they wanted to fight for their country. What does it say that they feel they now have to tout extreme activities in order to get adrenaline seeking young people to join up? Seems wrong to be directing snazzy advertising about being mates and rock climbing together at young kids at an impressionable time in their life.

Bloody well said, MamaD.

As I understand it, Britain is in an awkward position with "child soldiers".

This is defined as under 18, and the idea is to stop thugs rounding up kids at gunpoint and brutalising them into joining some war where the odds are they they will be killed or maimed.
A wholly bad thing that should be stopped, though of course to do this you probably need to use force...
Britain allows in people before 18, and usually they are in non-combat roles, indeed the vast majority of people in the armed forces aren't actually armed much after basic training.

But occasionally a ship is sent in harms way, which happens to have a very junior sailor on board.
From what I've read they are offered the chance of a free trip home after being dropped at the nearest port.
But they can if they so choose, refuse, and go to war.
These are "child soldiers" under what passes for international law.
To me, it goes to what age you should treat someone as an adult and able to make life or death decisions. A girl at 16 (for instance) is perfectly able to ask for an abortion (or indeed get pregnant) neither of which are risk free options.

As far as I can see, your argument is not based on the army and your thoughts of the army but on the government and the war in Iraq. Therefore, your argument is not valid. It wasn?t the army that decided to go into Iraq, it was the government, the two are not the same or did you not know that?

If you think that children should not go into the army because they might die, well maybe we should rule out a few more things then shall we?

Best not become a lorry driver because? you might die on the road. in fact best not get a driver?s licence because? yep you?ve guessed it, you might die. Or worse, you might break the speed limit, ad that?s illegal, similar to the illegal war? best not join the fire service, the police, the ambulance service because ? you might die. Not a lot left is there?

Personally I think the army is not as bad as we make out. I grew up in a country where ever boy has to complete two years of national service, and it changes each and every one of them and teaches them a bit of discipline. Something that would not go amiss in this country IMO.

I have a cousin who went to jail for gbh when he was just 17. he?d done everything under the sun. drugs, fighting in pubs, and then he hit some kid and went down. When he came out he joined the army. It?s turned his life around completely. He?s 29 now and has been all over. I don?t know what he does or where he?s been but I do know that it?s changed his life for the better.

Have to say I would rather DS did not go into the army but...my brother has had a fabulous life and travelled the world as part of it all.

Sweettalkinmum, so sorry for you loss. I wasn't talking about you, it's the rest of the thread

The army came to my DS pre-school recently. I didn't have a problem with it and DS loved having his picyure taken with an army jeep.
He came home with a goody bag too which contained:

A drinking cup (a huge hit)
2 balloons
...and a poster showing a tank firing!

I have to say I giggled at the idea of two rookie soldiers putting together goody bags and thinking "oh yeah - we'll give them some posters too" but not thinking "oh - this one might not be appropriate"

I have no problem with the army going into schools - in some parts of Europe it's still mandatory to do National Service. Nobody HAS to join.

I don't slate the forces, my brother died in the army, that's why i wouldn't want my child doing it because i know what it's like to lose someone who joined the army.

sweettalkinmam (did I spell that right lol), why's that? What if that is really what your ds wants to do. Will you be proud then?

MamaD, you shouldn't have had to say that, butI understand why you did.

I, for one, am proud of our armed services, people can slate the forces, but they've never been there, only spouting what they've heard or read.

I would still be very upset if my child went in the army.

Hi, let me introduce myself. I've been using mumsnet for around a year, but post infrequently - now I know why.......

There I was thinking I was a slightly neurotic mum, who needed advice now and then and loved getting this advice from other mums (and dads) on this website.

It actually turns out I am a terrorist.....

I was in Iraq for the ground war in 2003 and then again in 2004. I was in Northern Ireland in the 90s (when people were still trying to kill me, and each other), Bosnia in 96 and Kosovo in 99.

I believe in what I was there to do, and what I did and always thought my fellow countrymen understood the difference between soldier and government. Turns out I was wrong. When I signed on the dotted line I KNEW that I wouldn't always like the things I could be sent to do. I KNEW that I could be killed. I KNEW that I may have to kill.

I joined at 18 BECAUSE I WANTED TO. If someone joins thinking he wont ever go to war then he is a fool to himself. I think you underestimate 15 year olds if you think they are too stupid to make that decision for themselves - oh and if you think that the Army recruiters only talk about the best parts of the job you are wrong - Did you even see the presentation yourself? No? Well how can you comment on it? If you had seen it and then talked to the recruiters afterwards you will see that they take great pride in telling the lad and lasses they talk to that it's a bloody hard job, only to be undertaken by the minority able to cope with it.

Oh, and by the way TDMP - you talk a load of shite

I thought that the Sandringham bit was a dig at William & Harry playing at being at "soldiers" (from a desk) whilst lads from deprived areas are seen as cannon-fodder in Iraq - but I may be wrong. It could equally have meant Sandhurst.

Joining the army is not something i would encourage anyone in my family to do. I would be very upset if i had a son who came home and said he wanted to be in the army.