Ungrateful f#cker!

Haven't read the entire thread, but when my DH does something, he sort of half-does it, whereas in my opinion, 'anything worth doing is worth doing well'.
So, for eg, if he were to feed our toddler, I would expect him to clean up after that as well. That's the full job done. And that's what I would have done. So I am guilty of 'tsk-ing and tutting', because, the way I see it, if he half-does the job, I would be the one who will have to complete it, so in a way, what's the point of him doing it then?

back on here not make... ??????

ps there's no guarantee I won't be make on here at a later point as the author of a "am i being unreasonable...he's left milk and cereal to dry into the kitchen table and the baby went out in socks that clashed with his t shirt" threads

i've tried to keep up with thw whole thread,but have a 5mth old distracting me...

you sound great.(but that in itself is patronising as would I say the same to a woman?thing is you're much more hands on than a lot of dads i know.my own DH is a star!) you are not being unreasonable to have a whinge about your DW. your OP could have been written by either me or my DH ,so thank you for helping me to realise that i can be an ungratful cow sometimes(as can my DH to be honest...or is he a mancow?).

lots of people(i think) have mentioned the "hardest ages" bit. True I guess(mine are 4yrs and 5mths, so how do I know?)

i think at times both DH and I are jealous of the other's life(i'm a p/t WM currently on mat leave. he's full time WD.we share housework) i get snappy about things not being done the way I have envisaged(but not verbalised) and DH(when stupidly tired) started a ridiculous argument with me last week about not unpacking some boxes in the way he wanted.

you give me the impression that you're a solid partnership as you've defended your dw when people have been disparaging(sp?) of her.

as someone said, have a talk with her.
it must be quite tough being a working dad these days. so many others do seem to "work to rule" but keep the flag flying for those families who are muddling through with the set up you've got.

Not read all the responses but if my DH did as much as you I'd be delighted. I do all those things and then go out to work - DH has to go out earlier so does nothing. Much like the rest of the day really

However .... when DH does do things I have to bit my tongue because he doesn't ever clear up after himself. Ever! And I've had the discussion - politely and not so politely, and it makes no difference. As far as I'm concerned a job isn't done until there is no sign of it being done - ifswim. But I usually only carp and whinge if I'm tired or stressed (more than usual I mean ). Perhaps you could sit down and ask her what she wants you to do. Tell her that you are getting fed up and demotivated with the critisism.

Well... if you can't change your own attitude, then you have two choices:

1. Get better at everything you do
2. Forbid her from ever criticising you again.

Cascara, very well put. I think that's so. I'd actually rather that more stay at home parents and working parents were happy with their choices actually. It's the guilt thing which I don't have and which seems to spoil so many women's lives. Ditch the guilt and be happy.

On the thread, yes, everyone likes to be appreciated and no one likes to be criticised. Every married couple have difficult periods and if you've under 5s that the hardest stage of your entire life in my view so you need a bit of tolerance on both sides.

On the original routine here it isn't too different from how ours was except we had to get 5 children up, changed, breakfast to catch for the older 3 school coaches at 7.45am and then go on to work and get the babies home to their nanny. The different here is the mother is then home all day. If that is the case why not do the teeth after breakfast which is probably better anyway and let her do it? they could wash faces after breakfast too and why not the wife do the dishwasher during the day when she's home? It just seems you're cramming things into that early part of the day as 2 working parents would have to do but presumably not having to do that is one of hte plus points of having a non working spouse.

Xenia, Eventually I did not put up with it. I think when I realised that everyone else was always going to come second for him, he reserved first place for himself - always. I stopped being agreeable and I lost interest/respect for him as a person - it all fell apart remarkably rapidly. It is interesting what happens when the dynamic changes.

Okay... I'm at a bit of a loss. You're obviously a well educated man who is willing to admit that there are two sides to the story, so this is why I don't understand your comment here:

"Remember this is a Mars and Venus thing too, a woman says 'why didnt you give him his IQ sachet', a man hears 'you;re a worthless imbecile and couldnt do a job properly if your life depended on it', whereas she just means 'why didnt you give him his IQ sachet'"

If you KNOW this is a mars-venus thing and understand WHY you don't take your wife's comments the way they are intended, then can't you take this understanding a tiny step forward and try not to take offence when all she wants is an answer? No-one is completely above criticism, after all.

I must admit I'm a bit like this too. dh is usually down at breakfast before me, and I often criticise him.

I do think that there is an element of me being mean/picky/naggy etc, but on the other hand I think that if I did breakfast I would sweep the floor/load the dishwasher/wipe blobs of porridge etc etc, and quite frankly the kitchen isn't like it is when I have finished a meal (this is turning into a rant ).

Probably it is a mixture of you not living up to your dws standards, and her/you feeling overwhelmed with children etc and forgetting your feelings - I know I am like this after hours alone with the dcs.
I would suggest going out together and speaking about things over a glass of wine and away from the drudgery and chaos. It is very difficult to get away from a blame situation though.

Cascara - there has been a bit of both, the vast majority have offered helpful suggestions, including trying to look at it from her point of view, but there has been one or two posters who have had a bit of a kneejerk reaction to perceived criticism of LostPuppy's DW. If it was the wife complaining about the husband, you would see a few posters eagerly queuing up to slag said husband off.
Just out of interest, LostPuppy, how old are your DSs?

I'm amazed at Squonk's point of view to be honest.
the whole I'm a SAHM and dp works full time so I don't expect him to do anything else.
My dh works full time - that's 37 hours a week. My week is far longer so yes I expect him to put kids to bed, do some housework, sometimes get kids up too.

There's a difference between defending and putting forward helpful suggestions as to why the DW may be the way she is so LP can possibly gain a greater understanding which will help their relationship. Of course we could all cheerlead for him and tell him his wife is a lazy bitch but that's not really constructive is it?

I would say Xenia is very confident in her position which is why she doesn't take offence or get defensive. I don't feel the need to be defensive about my "SAHM" position because I feel it's right for me and my family, although I've come close to tipping point really. So Xenia making her statements doesn't upset me or make me defensive and want to attack her even though our points of view are opposite. In fact they could possibly be downright helpful for those women who don't want to stay at home but feel societal and/or message board pressure that they are forever harming their children if they don't.

Wow Lostpuppy, I'm in awe of how much you do!. My DH gets up later than I do even though he has to be at his desk by 7.15am. All he does is get himself showered and dressed (with a lot of blank staring into the middle distance going on). I don't really feel I need any help in the morning though as I don't find getting my three dressed and breakfasted by 8.20 too much of a chore and as a SAHM, I treat it as my job.

You sound lovely, and your DW is being unreasonable. Agree that you need to thrash out your concerns, maybe she doesn't realise what an effect her constant criticism is having on you.
at some of the comments, some of you are bit too quick to jump to defend this man's DW - sisterly solidarity taken a wee bit too far methinks.

(But why did you tolerate that, Caroline? That's what I don't get. Women (or men) who are really fed up with their husband (or wife) sitting around slobbishly when both are home whilst the other one is busy clearing up etc adn yes they moan about it but they let it happen, they sanction the behaviour.

In our marriage before we were even engaged he'd shown me his system for washig his shirts (and he had his own house which he cleaned and dealt with anyway) not that I married him for his laundry abilities but I wasn't surprised that once we got going in the marriage, both working, and we divided tasks he took on the rinsing, drying of the terry nappies (at one stage we had 3 children in them every night) whilst I did whatever else I did. We started from that basis of domestic equality which perhaps doesn't have that much to do with who works.

duch's points about how parents at home can feel are very pertinent. My solution is let the man who is cross about it and thinks "I don't have the patience for it" (which means I'm prepared to fob off this really dull unpaid work to this woman and ruin her career prospects in the process and because of her conditioning she will accept this sexist model) stay home and do that part if he wants a parent at home.

Why not be radical? Tonight suggest you'd like her to go back to full time work and you'll both together find someone really good to look after the children in your own home. I'm sure the whole family will be happier for that decision.

I don't think work to rule is appropriate WRT housework or childcare - you are a parent just as much as your wife. If one parent was doing it all on their own all of the time, I can see the argument, but that's not the case.

The thing about your mentioning work to rule is that it seems you think you are doing your wife a favour, doing more than you 'should'. I'm not surprised your wife is moody - she's probably picked up your assumption that you deserve sainthood for getting the kids up. You are an adult taking responsibilty for your own children. That's not unfair or unreasonable.

Have a chat with your wife over a bottle of wine re morning routine and how to cope when it wobbles, is she pissed off about anything else and taking it out on you at what seems to you like the wrong moment.

Maybe your DW feels a little pushed out by you running around doing so many jobs, can't seem to get a toehold in the mornings (is she a morning person?) and her way of expressing this frustration is to snap at you when you don't finish a job which comes across as ungratitude?

I think you need to sit down and address this. I agree you shouldn't fight in front of the kids and work out a parenting style that suits both of you.

Agree with blu that communicating with your dw is the key. You need sheltered time for that - book a babysitter and a nice meal. Get out of the house, talk and reminise.

I can understand people need to feel appreciated. For men, it is very very important. I know my dh starts feeling demoralised when he gets criticised even though he is trying his darndest and it is not good enough for me - usually because I was stressed trying to hold the threads of my chores together and forgot to be kind to him. The best time to talk is not when it is crunch time (esp during the morning rush hour) but when you and dw are relaxed - so you can both see the humour in it.

Life is a great journey. Don't throw it away.

Absolutely. Quite agree. Recreational offense-taking is far too widespread in this country IMO, and there is a lack of genuine intellectual debate.

Xenia, Interesting. My ex husband was absolutely hopeless with the children and with chores, we had a real 1950s type marriage which we sort of fell into (in spite of the fact that I was the highest earner when child no. 1 was born!). It is perhaps no wonder that it all fell apart (though after almost 20 years) as we lived totally different lives, him travelling with a very well paid exciting job, coming home to base increasingly irregularly and wanting just to read the paper, be well fed and watered, entertained in orderly and tasteful surroundings and expecting the children to be impeccably behaved. Although, I did not resent him his successful life, he resented me my life and seemed to do everything possible to upset my equilibrium by being monstrously bad tempered with me, the children and his mother. This time round it has made me much more aware of the dangers of a couple living two disparate lives.