Ungrateful f#cker!

Well it's what most couples choose to do Anna so it's not exactly a bizarre suggestion. And it's not really as you describe it. You take it in turns to take to school or get home on time being practical and sensible about it. Child off sick which parent has the most important meeting that day etc as we see mumnetters and their other halves doing very day of the week.

Nor do you say you wash half that plate and I will do the other one but you might divide tasks like we did - before work my husband put on the dishwasher and washer (for the cleaner to empty later) and I got the school bags ready and when they were born I fed the twins etc first thing and he got breakfast for the older three chidlren. So yes even working couples divide tasks up all the time rather than share them but none of us want to get back to a situation where men can't cook or wash or clean houses and women do all that. That's a ridiculous position and very bad for women and families.

The Xenia-one-size-fits-all solution is particularly inappropriate here. Xenia's solution to marital friction is basically to cop out of marriage altogether by dividing all labour necessary for family function down the middle.

The Xenia way you gain absolutely no economies of scale, no task specialisation, no negotiation. Why marry? You're on your own.

I totally agree with FrannyandZooey. The 'nothing I ever do is good enough' is a cry I've heard from my dh and several others and it is valid BUT the general irritation stems from something deeper. I am speaking from experience. Talk to her about how you feel, ask her to stopping criticising you but maybe ask her if she needs some more time to herself - have you considered whether you have enough time out as a couple as well?. The nagging and bickering is a symptom of things but it doesn't mean necessarily you don't love and value each other underneath. Working to rule is a really bad idea and you will end up making things much worse. I would FLIP if my dh did that.
Her working is not the answer though Xenia, I find it much easier when I am not competing with my dh for who has to take time off to be with sick children/take them on nursery trips etc etc. I do still work part-time and enjoy it but sometimes I would just like to sit back and say ok, you work and my area will be home, I will feel less guilty about taking time for myself when you are here and won't take it out on you so much.....

Talking is the answer, because you have to find a solution that works for you both and the DC.
DH does nothing in the house in the morning except go out and put the a/c on in the car before we all leave, (me, DH and DS). My morning would be far more unbearable if I had to get into my car when its 45 degrees outside with 80 humidity. He rocks!
Having said that I did work part time, now I'm a sahm. I really like it even though DS is 11. His friends think he's really cool because this is the only house where they get homemade cakes (not that other working mums/dads/carers dont bake). I empathise with the fact if a jobs worth doing do it properly, however my standards are so high I cant meet them therefore I dont. Housework is drudgery and lifes too short. I just tell DH and DS once every few weeks I am having a cleaning day, dont speak to me and be really nice to me as I hate it, hate it, hate it. We all know how it works for us in our family, its just part of our way of life now.
Hope you find something that works for your family. But you have to talk togther to get anywhere.
Best of luck, enjoy your bottle of wine and reach a mutally agreeable solution.

I've seen xenia's comments!! And I am a SAHM, and very happy I am too!

But sometimes, just sometimes, there is the occasional nugget of sense tucked away in all her rhetoric!

Obimomkanobi.We all need a hobby or something but xenia answers almost all probs with this answer.Apparently she believes that SAHM's are not worth anything and are all enimies of womens lib.Don't know if you've seen her other posts but have a look and you'll see what we mean.

I do think that xenia has a point though. My MIL has never worked outside the home and has spent her life worrying about ironing shirts military style and not allowing dust to accumulate for longer than a nano-second.

And she moans constantly about having no time for herself because of her household duties, yet if my FIL chips in it isn't up to standard and he gets the sigh of doom directed at him!

I'm not saying though that work is the only answer though, any interest outside the home/children is a good thing.

xenia my opinion on that is it's utter bollocks.Sorry but not everything is because someone is a SAHM.
Also I think a lot of working mums actually say they would love to afford to be a SAHM and some SAHM's would prefer to be working mums.Not eveerything comes down to this fact.SAHM I know are useless and worthless to you but guess what we are neither.
We do a good job and are happy in the main to do it.Please realise that just because you post this in response to any probs doesn't make it a fact of life.Please stop and think a little that maybe,just maybe,not all mums want to be away from their dc's for most of the day.I know I don't and to that end i even now HE mine.Also it has been repeatedly said that dc's are better off for having at least one SAHParent until age 5.
In the case here he feels that he is getting walked on and from what he posts I can understand this.

Xenia - can you think of any human problem that doesn't have an instant solution in both partners in marriage working?

My partner has an expression for "one size fits all" solutions - "le couteau suisse" (Swiss Army Knife).

That Xenia - she is the Swiss Army Knife of human dilemmas...

Yes, they only have their little home domain to be king of hence they jealously preserve their reign over it. If they worked liked most mothers there wouldn't be these issues and she wouldn't be personally affronted if he didn't fold the clothes with the precise corners required or feeds the baby different foods than he does. It's this assumption mother is right and father wrong that is so appalling in many relationships and mostly caused by them not equally parenting and women staying at home. It's solved by them both working.

I think you need to both have clear 'guidelines' as to who does what in the mornings. Have you explained to your wife how it makes you feel when she criticises you?

A lot of gatekeeping goes on with mothers. Sometimes they are unwilling to fully relinquish tasks (even though they don't actually want to do the taskk in the first place) and this unwillingness can be expressed as criticism.

I think that there are three issues in your post:

1. division of labour - is it fair in your household? Do you need to reassess who does what? This generally needs to be done quite often.
2. fulfilment of tasks that either one of you has engaged to undertake - are you doing what you said you would do? This is actually very important, since people go onto automatic pilot at busy times (early in the morning) and get very stressed out by disruption and changes when they have a lot to accomplish in a short space of time.
3. appreciation of one another's efforts - are you making sure each person feels appreciated and respected for their contribution to the household?

I think your major complaint in this post surrrounded issue 2. Don't underestimate how important it is that your wife doesn't have to pick up the pieces where you left off - it will annoy her. If you feel that you have too much to achieve before going to work, renegotiate with your wife what you do. But don't just not do it.

LostPuppy
I think you sound like you are doing your best.If she wishes to treat you that way then you need to speak up and tell her enough.Leave her to do everything one morning and then see how she likes it.Tell her that if you are doing such a rotten job then she can do it herself to make sure that it gets done right.
A relationsip is about supporting each other not one doing this and the other doing that and then one getting criticised.If she's a SAHM then yes she prob does have a hard day but by the sounds of things so do you.
You sound like a guy who is tyrying his best and getting kicked...well somewhere anyway.I hope she learns to appreciate you as you obv do her

you are not being unreasonable at all lostpuppy.

quite frankly, as a single parent of two kids the fact that someone makes me a cup of coffee brightens my day, let alone anything else!

I think Xenia made a good point earlier when she said it seems like you're trying to cram things into the start of the day which could be left til a bit later. Tbh, your thread read to me like the typical start of the day for two working parents - not the start I would expect when one is a SAHM. You are not being unreasonable - you recognise that parenting is a difficult job, and you respect your wife, but it sounds as though she's not recognising your pressures. Yes, I know parenting is a 24 hour job, but that DOESN'T mean that a working parent has it any easier - I mean, they go out and do a day's work and then come home to the other job of parenting. Are you and your wife fundamentally happy with the roles you have? Would you prefer to have more time at home with your children? Because I sometimes think in these situations there's an underlying resentment on one or both sides- and tbh the best solution is to try to equalise your roles more. That's the only real way of gaining an understanding of the pressures. Speaking as a WOHM with a WOH partner,I'd say if your wife was having to get herself off to a demanding job after this morning routine, perhaps she'd be a bit more appreciative of all you're doing!

A very interesting thread.

Lost Puppy your dw sounds just like me! I even had a moment of paranoia while reading your posts that DH had discovered MN by himself!

I will however say a few things from my perspective... they've pretty much already been covered but I would like to add my bit... so here goes:

1. First thing in the morning I am vile. I'm a bubbly and friendly person the rest of the day and only DH and the poor DDs know the morning me. Since having children I've found mornings especially difficult. I had terrible insomnia after dd1 and although the condition has vastly improved, my sleep has not been the same since. Despite the dds sleeping through these days I haven't slept through the night since I was pregnant with dd1. Hence every morning I feel grumpy and sleep deprived. It's not the best start to the day and I think you are doing the best for your wife by giving her a little space in which to collect her thoughts before the day begins.

2. I was not genetically programmed to enjoy housework. I hate it. However I was programmed to be a tidy freak. I am a perfectionist and as many other posters have said, a job worth doing is a job worth doing well. Whenever DH has the children on his own the house looks as if a bomb has struck. Any lasting feelings of space and freedom escape me as soon as I walk trough the door to find the house in a mess. It brings me back to earth with a crash. I either have to a) nag or b) drudge it. Being a drudge is deeply unsexy. Picking pants up off the floor, cleaning up poo and mopping up spilt potties is to me, a former highly-paid Marketing Manager, brain-draining, dispiriting and basically crap. Why? because women these days have higher expectations of themselves. We don't all relish the servile crap that goes with looking after children. So you can partly blame your dw's attitude as a by-product of today's have it all society. Just don't blame her for being unreasonable in wanting to be a fragment of her former glamorous self.

3. Don't expect a knighthood for your troubles. Parenthood is a shared responsibility and I believe that husbands who expect their wives to do it all should go back to the cave they crawled out of. Likewise, I don't think women should stand for it either. Like it or not, and I'm speaking as someone who has done both, looking after under fives is infinitely more draining than a day in the office. Remember that if your wife did do it all, she would have to work a twelve plus hour day. Hardly fair is it?

Finally, arguing in front of the children isn't that big a crime IMO. Don't chastise her for it. It's very hard to find time for civilised conversations while young dcs are about. I saw my parents argue all the time and it didn't harm me - made me realise that feelings are there to be expressed!

I totally agree with all the posters on here who have said you need to find time to do something nice together - dh and I often talk about our expectations of each other and we vent a lot of frustrations during these conversations. Do it over a nice meal though, away from the dcs. Make her feel special. I bet she feels a pent-up mixture of guilt for the fact you work (because it's a more tangible task that SAHM-dom), grief for the person she once was, anger for the fact she nowadays feels like a slave and insecurity that she no longer looks and feels like the hot totty you married.

Good luck, you are doing a good job - both of you!

I think it's all a bit 6 of one and half a dozen of the other. But it's a losing argument to say "well other men do less"... so??? THat doesn't make it right. She shouldn't have spoken to you abruptly but you shouldn't be expecting anything for doing stuff before you go to work. Simple evening discussion over in 5 secs of apologies all round in my book.

But looking at this from your wife's POV, going to work is a BREAK from the the children. So no matter that your hours are the same - she is a mum 24/7, no time out and your brain juggles everything. Therefore she shouldn't have to be grateful for anything you do for your children when you are both in the home together - you're their father. And in my book in 2007 that means equal parenting and equal domestic tasks for the times that you are both at home. And as she doesn't get time out naturally by going to work this needs to be built in (like the morning bath) else quite frankly she'll go nuts. I second the suggestion you guys take some time out away from the kids, have a chat, realise how much you appreciate each other, complement each other in what you do etc and move on.

Hope she's not a member of mumsnet else you'll be buying a lot of flowers...

Wish I'd married you . It's refreshing to here that you also appreciate how hard the role of SAHM is. Seriously though it sounds like you both need to go out and spoil yourselves and talk about this away from the dc's. I'm sure that you will be able to discuss how she made (makes) you feel rationally and reasonably and hopefully she'll open up about how she feels too. My guess (speaking as a SAHM of 6yrs) is that she's probably starting to feel undervalued, losing her self-esteem (I know I did) - nothing that you've done or said and that the little things that you do make all the difference. Is there anyway she could take a part-time job just to give her some self-esteem back. Good luck.

I look forward to seeing toilet rolls on the holder one day as it's almost a personal insult to me to see them sitting there on the cistern instead of on the holder - dp is quite happy to grab and go .

I might be waiting a long time though .

At least none of you are in year 22 of motherhood - that's quite a long under 5s period we've had with 5 children.

On the way tasks are done I think when you're first together you just learn each other's preferences and methods and kind of come together with compromise. If one thinks strongly you never dry your hands on the tea towel and the other couldn't care less you move to the rule that pleases the one with the strongest views etc.

My dp is always moaning at me for how I do housework - he once ticked me off for rinsing the dishes off as I went when I was washing up (he likes it done in one go at the end). Then a few months later, I caught him using my method of 'rinse as you go'. I suggested a bit of consistency wouldn't go amiss but got that look. I can't really say too much as it's his flat butI don't let him get away with criticising me unnecessarily. When I use the toilet rags to wash up, that's when he can carp at me. Until then he can either do it himself or let me get on with it my way.

Oh Lord, 8 years of non stop marital strive and i've got to do another 6 years?

oh don't say that...about the lifted cloud...i'm planning number three when number too is five so that'll be 13 years of shitty moods with one another

spina speaks wise words. Obviousyl all parents whatever their gender and let's not forget there are lots of single sex couples with chidlren these days too, both should chip in when home and it's completely unacceptbale to say a man is "good" for "helping" when all he's doing is something a woman does. Women don't have innate desires or skills to clean floors or change nappies. My ex used to get very cross about how the dishwasher was stacked. People just have different views on things and you have to sort it out and everyone with under 5s is irritable with each other regularly. it's just normal life and marriage and then it gets better when suddenly like a cloud lifting the youngest is 5 or 6.

Lostpuppy, I commented on it because you brought it up again. And I think you are wrong about the fish oil drops, if I said that to dh I'd mean 'why couldn't you even remember to give him his fish oil, FFS, do I have to do it ALL by myself' if I was in a bad mood.