DH didn’t stop when I said stop

Queen that's what concerns me. Yep, OP is more emotionally invested in this than anybody else, it will of course be hard for her. But it concerns me that the overall message on this thread from many is that some things are okay if your husband does them. Which of course when you break it down into actions & consequences is incorrect in a legal sense.

I too worry to think what some posters are teaching their children. It's okay for a man to rape you if he is your partner & he loves you. It's okay for you to ignore your partner's withdrawal of consent as long as it is the first time you have done it & it 'only' lasts a few seconds. What a wonderful future our kids face

But it's also hard for the OP to consider reporting what happened to the police as she does of course still love him (you can't just turn your feelings off) and he's her DCs' father. If it's a date rape, yes people might be a bit judgey but there won't be the same desire to bury it under the carpet.

It's totally the same crime, but no one wants to think the man they love is actually a rapist, hence the OP's refusal to accept it.

Which is understandable. And the posters who 'feel' it wasn't rape seem very invested because there's a marriage and children involved.
I'm guessing these posters would advise their daughters in the same way.
And if their sons behaved like this? Makes me shudder.

I can fully understand OP struggling to get her head round it, it isn't something that many want to consider. My question was more directed at the commenters saying it was a mistake because...

Although i do believe OP has some thoughts it wasn't right, because she said herself if a friend told her the same thing she would have reacted to it

But it's also hard for the OP to consider reporting what happened to the police as she does of course still love him (you can't just turn your feelings off) and he's her DCs' father. If it's a date rape, yes people might be a bit judgey but there won't be the same desire to bury it under the carpet.

It's totally the same crime, but no one wants to think the man they love is actually a rapist, hence the OP's refusal to accept it.

Scary thought really

And then there would be the question of what was she wearing and had she sent mixed signals...

mathanxiety you make a fair point there!!

JAPAB same here, it doesn't matter whether it is DP, DH, FWB, ONS etc to me, the outcome is still the same. I was curious tho, because there has been a lot of 'how is your relationship generally?' & 'has this happened before?' comments, which suggests that people are playing this down because it is OPs husband that did it

mustbemad - I think in that situation there would be a certain amount of judging of a woman who would go with someone she didn't know too well to his place, because women can't win for losing...

@Itsnotaboutbeingrightyouknow is so right!

And yes, @pumperthepumper if someone you love turns on you, doesnt take no for answer, its perfectly ok to protect yourself then get the feck outta there whether thats a kick in the nuts or a jaw jut. I can personally attest to that.

I wonder if anybody's view on it changes?

Doesn't make that much difference to me personally. It would all hinge on whether he could have had a reasonable belief that consent had been re-instated. Whether husband or ONS.

Luisa27

Your accusation of pedantry and quick dart for the exit is noted, Luisa. Can't or won't answer - it makes no difference to the facts.

I just donot understand how those of you defending this man's actions can still feel the same after reading the perfectly articulated posts of people like math and peng and many others

I would be interested to know how people initially thought "the man just made a mistake" and if they now have a different conclusion

Of course she's welcome to have her own opinions, that's the point! As she hasn't been back, it's reasonable to consider that maybe she wasn't finding it helpful. I hope she's getting RL support and I very much agree that Rape Crisis is the best place for that. I found calling their helpline was a great support to me. If you are reading this, @bijouhibou then do call them. They often don't answer, as the phones are manned by volunteers, but if you leave a message they always call you back.

It is really, really important that the definition of rape is understood and accepted. The definition is not mere opinion. It is fact.

Women are powerless until we understand and can name what is done to us. If we can't do that, we go about our lives wondering if it is reasonable for us to feel troubled after an incident the like of which the OP described followed by the defensive justification her H gave her. Knowing where you stand is essential when you want to stand up to someone who has done you wrong and is trying to assert that you are unreasonable, over sensitive, or any of the other attempts at silencing that goes on in so many relationships.

When one poster after another appears to dispute the legal definition, and to claim that actually it's really hard to define what happened because:

1. we weren't there (and therefore it's her word against his);
2. he may be a good husband/father apart from the one time he raped you and tried to shut you up afterwards;
3. it's only rape if you are beaten almost to death in an alley;
4. whatever....

...then it is really important to insist that rape really is defineable, and to keep on doing that, in the face of very unreasonable opposition, for as long as it takes.

I'd like to put a different spin on this, call it an experiment if you will.

Imagine the OP was slightly different;

I went out last night, met a guy, we got talking. It went well, we ended up at his place & things progressed. Whilst we were having sex i started to feel uncomfortable & asked him to stop. He replied that he was coming & carried on until he had finished. It made me feel awful & i had tears in my eyes. He was really supportive afterwards but those few seconds after i said stop were horrible

I wonder if anybody's view on it changes?

I do worry for the future of womankind. Yes, it was rape. Rape is not conditional on whether you love the perpetrator or whether he's a good father. No one is obligated to report rape- if the OP chooses not to, that's up to her. However, it is important that anyone coming on here knows that it is rape and they can report it and be taken seriously if something similar happens to them. That they are entitled to rape counselling if they require it. That they aren't being melodramatic. Telling them it's not rape does cut them off from avenues of support they may need to access. Teenagers come on this site - do we really want them going away with the message that it's OK if their boyfriends carry on when consent has been withdrawn as long as he was close to finishing and he is otherwise a good partner? That it's undesirable behaviour that warrants a ticking off but that any reaction above that is an overreaction and unreasonable? Seems like a slippery slope to me- our bodily autonomy has been so hard-won and could be so easily lost if we take it for granted.

'it won't be helpful to the OP'

I don't think that's for anyone but the OP to decide? Or is she not allowed to have her own opinions as well as not allowed to stop painful sex?

Once again, this thread is so sad to read. The amount of posts minimising rape is scary. When we still live in times where rape is minimised and dismissed, it is especially important to remember that NO means NO.

As said before, this is a discussion forum. It is perfectly possible to be concerned for the OP and to challenge the minimising, dismissive, apologist posters. Especially concerning rape. It is also possible to have misplaced concern. Like encouraging a woman who has been raped to believe it isn't rape.

My point was that if we are here to participate on this thread because we genuinely care about OP and her future well being we will be able to discuss the different viewpoints that have been aired without reverting to demonizing those who disagree with us, because all that will matter is that we support and encourage OP, and that she is ultimately ok.

The validation of our opinion on the situation will not be the paramount objective, nor will it actually be important to us.

However, the language and tone that has been used by many towards those who disagree with them has been truly awful..which to the outside observer suggests that what's really going on here now is a need to be right at all costs, regardless of the cost to the other participants, or ultimately the OP.

I would respectfully suggest that resorting to this kind of aggressive discussion where we verbally destroy each other does nothing to advance the cause of all those women we say we care so much about, and that primarily includes the OP.

So - clarifying the law, repeating the legal definition, and insisting that words have solid, well understood meanings is now pedantry?

@Pengwyyyn - I ‘can’ answer you, yes - whether I want to debate and dissect this area of the Law with a pedantic stranger at just after 8 on a Bank Holiday morning is another matter - sorry only teasing Peng
Our children are with my DPs for the day, and I’m about to enjoy a delicious, and much anticipated breakfast in bed.
Enjoy the bank hol everyone - hope you all have as lovely a day as we intend to

I actually agree that the OP very likely won't be back now. It won't be helpful to her to keep hearing that it was rape and she should call the police. She needs time to process what happened and to make her own decisions.

I remember when my DSis was disclosing the DV she suffered in her first marriage. She wouldn't allow us to say a word against him at the time. She came to her own decisions, filed for divorce herself and found herself somewhere to live.

Now that she's moved on and is in a loving relationship, she knows exactly what her ex was. But she had to realise it for herself. The OP was starting to realise what her DH had done was very wrong, but she needs to have space to make her own decisions.

It's like saying, 'To me, elephants have six legs' or 'To me, water flows upwards', then expecting others to concede the subjectivity of the terms 'elephants', 'six', 'water' etc. Those concepts have definitions, so I can't just ignore them and say 'Oh well, it's complicated.' No, it isn't.

When you say something is 'how you see it' or 'to you', as if that matters, you are dismissing the reality.

'How you see it' in this case that rape is in the eye of the 'beholder', that it is also in the mind and heart of the male involved, and that it is a really nebulous and conditional thing with all sorts of circumstantial factors swirling around it, and impossible to define.

All of which is completely incorrect, wrong, and very harmful to women as a class and to individual women including the OP.

Luisa27

I see your definition of 'assertion' is no better than your definition of 'rape'.

Can you answer me? Why are you so keen to disregard the actual, factual definition of 'rape'?