for being a SAHM

So you think on a thread about whether mothers who work the person who starts it should have a right to decide who posts on it@? That's a weird view of the internet and free speech, isn't it? It's what all regimes in the world do when they want to silence someone, when they want to curb criticism. It's what thescientologists do when interviewed - not let you get a word in edgeways. Why we have the internet and indeed processes when people debate things in courts and other places where one person speaks and then the other reacts is because this is a democracy and the right to reply is important. Obviously if someon says something that breaks the law that's another matter or if a private owned web site decides it wants to allow only a certain kind of person to post on it then that's their right.

xenia I understand that you would like to have your say and that is your right, however with respect to 2shoes who would like to see an end to this thread, could you please consider starting your own thread about how you feel?

If you wish to link to this thread for others to see then that would be a good idea.

Any chance?

so i have actually summerised exactly what you were saying...just in fewer words.

I odn't agree with most of those things you say I do. Many stay at home parents are good parents. Many low wage earners council refuse workers and the like are good parents.

I think it's better foe the country if intelligent women in this transitional period as women exercise rights they haven't long have tend to work to consolidate a position that could easily slip from them so politically there may be a duty on women to work which isn't there on men. I've certainly said that.

I also think there are about 100 reasons why working women benefit their children and families which I won't repeat again.

"Anyone that likes spending time with their children, enriching their lives and building a bond with them is just fat and lazy and ignorant to the struggle of generations of women." I can't understand anyone who wants to spend time 24/7 with their chidlren as it's a bit dull day in day out which is why most women choose to work and they are fresh and happy to be with the children rather than jaded and fed up. There are very fat working women as much as stay at home women although getting back into a work suit can mean working mothers tend to be slimmer but I would be happy to proved wrong.

is that not what you have spent the last week spouting though?

I don't think anyone except me can say what my views are so by all means read them below but it's for me to summarise them.

awen, I'm hugely in favour of free speech. I would hate to live in a country where parents couldn't state their views on what is best for children. I'm sure you and I share similar views on that issue. It's very important.

Xenia's stand point-

you are only a good parent if you earna fortune, give birth as if your a production line and then hadn tehm straight over to a nanny wjhile you get on your blackberry to arrange your cab back to the ofiice in case the womens workers union catches you sitting on your arse actually enjoying some time with your kids.

Anyone that likes spending time with their children, enriching their lives and building a bond with them is just fat and lazy and ignorant to the struggle of generations of women.

everyone else's stand point -

fuckety bollox your talking out of your arse you mad fruitcake woman.#

now can we please just allow the thread to drop out of active convo's as quite frankly im getting a headache from banging my bonce against a brick wall

wotzanmae

xx

shall we go and play the word game, it is much more fun....

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It seems to me that our responsibility as parents is to ensure that there is enough money to put a roof over their heads and food on the table, give them opportunities and a chace to succees and surround them with love. You manage this according to your circumstances nad if getting one and two means you need to engage the services of a much-loved childcarer, then so be it.

And for what its worth, the fact that I HAD to go back to work was great for me as an individual, and has (I think) ultimately in our situation, been better for our family life

Wotzaname - I keep trying to stay away.. keep getting drawn back in!

Xenia - I wasnt always a 'stay at homer' actually on been a proper stay at home for last 3 weeks. I completely and utterly disagreee with your last post! It isnt for fear of offending 'stay at homers!!' it is because your view is not the majority. Thankfully we live in a demorcracy with free speech as if the country was run by zealots like you we would be in a very sorry state!

I can't beleive this is still going. Please end..

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Xenia 'Why would anyone say mum? It just sounds dreadful. Mummy is much cosier, normal, nice.'
How daft !! Please everyone get a grip !!

Xenia - I may not agree with some of what you post, but I have to say, at least you stick to what you believe in!

bump, just read me then, not them because I'm saying it's better for children if the mother works, not just an acceptable compromise or okay if you really have to be but beneficial.

We rarely see that written which is why it seems to irritate stay at homers so much as if the press censors itself for fear of upsetting their feelings and yet written all the time is people voicing views there is some nirvana or ideal of woman living off male earnings serving the needs of her children and family for no pay as it it's a golden aim and best serves all children.

Gosh - have not read all of the posts so sorry if I offend anyone, but is the debate of SAHM vs. WOHM mother not a rather pointless and undermining one? We all have to do what we think is right for us, and sometimes what circumstances force on us, regardless of our personal wishes?

For what its worth, I think the OP is making the right choice by being a SAHM. MY personal story is that I took a voluntary redundancy from a multinational while pregnant with DS2 so that I could pursue other interests at home and be there for the kids until they were in full time school. My ex Dh then left for a woman at work before DS2's birth. I had no job, and because he was the kind of jerk who would leave a pregnant woman, he gave us no money. We survived on my redundancy pay for a while, then I had no choice but to get a full time job. As a result of that, we now have a decent quality of life and I know that I am being the best mummy I could be by providing for the kids. But I still find it difficult to read some of these posts which imply that I am failing them by not being at home full time. For some of us there is no choice - can't we all be a bit more accepting, and realise that indivdual choices are based around a heap of personal circumstances?

These 2 particulary jump out, but the whole Alpha MUmmy thing is ludicrous. The corralation being that the alpha female of a wolf pack is the only one allowed to breed and all the other females care for her young. To imply that there is a minority of females who are 'alpha mummys' imply that they alone should have offspring whoch should be cared for by the other females. Complete hogwash.

Xenia's quotes:

'as I've said before there's almost a duty to put other women above your own children even if you think it's better for your children to be home particularly if you're working in a good job'

and

'For me it's not an issue at all because I think children actually can be better served by a working mother than one at home so in fact you're doing your best for them by leaving them with someone else so it's not even a debate for me. it's a closed book, settled argument, not even neutral might be okay to work or okay at home but on a balance of most things better to work. So I don't even need the mental debate over it'

I didnt say there wasnt class division, i didnt say mum was better. Mummy is great for normal everyday use by children. I just said that using the words alpha mummy as an adult, and believing in it, makes you sound like a nutcase.

Awen, pls give specific example. Xenia makes a lot of comments, which one(s) were you thinking of?

if you truely feel u are no better tahn anyone else why make comments like you have been on this thread?

Anyone who says the UK doesn't have class division is totally blind. That doesn't mean it's right but it's a fact. Sometimes it works for and sometimes against you and often it doesn't matter but it is significant and in most cultures too. Why would anyone say mum? It just sounds dreadful. Mummy is much cosier, normal, nice.

hmmm im sure she'll be chuffed . Not really, she would think it far beneath her to consider such stereotypes. Regardless of class using the words 'mum' or 'mummy' attached to the word alpha - without cringing - makes the person using it look like a bit of a div imo. Otherwise work or no work, not really bothered what other people decide...