for being a SAHM

I am not a Government or abuser forcing anyone into any kind of view. You don't have to read what I post. You don't have to read any press article saying working parents damage chidlren or stay at home parents damage children or whatever. I don't strap you to a chair, deprive you of food water and sleep and hypnotise or drug you into adopting my views. But don't forget women and men fought very hard to get women equality in the work place and every woman who might have done well professionally who chooses to stay at home instead is damaging other women and their daughters. May be a Judas betrayer? Slink back to your kitchens with guilt....

Mozhe, I think it's fair to say that a Woman who fails to understand why any woman would wish to spend her day with small children (Xenia) will not be able to say anything which a SAHM will not find offensive tbh!

"Stay at home mother patheticness!"

That's surely quote of the week!

mozhe - your obviously seeing the posts from xenia in a very different light.

mozhe - your obviously seeing the posts from xenia in a very different light.

Where's the foisting???!!!

I have a problem with SAHMs being pathetic and WOHMs being seen as champions. I think there are all sorts in both camps (and they are not mutually exclusive). Why does it have to be a competition? Why can't we be comfortable with each other's decision (which is not always made by choice). I don't resent Xenia having her opinions but I do resent having her opinions foisted upon me as though I am not able to make my own decisions for myself. I have my own principles thanks Xenia, they are well formulated and clear and make me comfortable living the life I live.

It's perfectly possible just to ignore views of course, isn't it? Some of us know in our heart of hearts all adults should work or all mothers of under 5s should be at home. But I don't think it's wrong to say what you think is right as an objective truth - e.g. wrong to cane children or wrong to allow men to have two wives or whatever the point is. There are genuine rights and wrongs in the world and it's important people state their views. I think most women benefit from working and their chidlren do too. Most people don't say that. There's some kind of cost cartel of lovey dovey stay at home mother pathetic-ness which seems to think they have some kind of moral high ground when they don't. Perhaps.... wait for it... they have moral low ground and damage their children for staying home in some cases.

mozhe - obv your interpretation of her comments and implications are greatly different from mine and it appears others.

Caroline - very well put. I have been unable to express myself on here so well.

mamazon -

Why is it that those trying to put forward ideas that support a WOHM-lifestyle are often the targets of..outright abuse/vitriol OR 'forced' off the thread ? And those who utterly defend the SAHM-lifestyle are so prone to misinterpretation and defensiveness ? I've read the whole thread and Xenia hasn't been rude or discourteous, agree she has strong opinions,( and they are in direct opposition to others ? )but why should she start another thread ? because you don't want to hear what she says, and you are angry with her....but ask yourselves why ?
BTW not stirring but genuinely interested..
wasn't going to post on this thread but couldn't resist...

It is my observation that Xenia's "working mother is best" viewpoint is applied to everybody without any regard to the facts or personalities involved. She does not say "this works best for me and these are my circs". She has to make it best for all of us and if she fails to convince anyone then her final word on the subject is that they must be working class, depressed or totally lacking in intellect.
Someone else on this thread talked about the choice having been removed (she had to work when her marriage collapsed) and that it worth bearing in mind. Some people do not have the luxury of choosing whether or not to stay home. I stay at home. It would be much more lucrative if I went off on the 8.10am every morning to the City (I am a professional) but I prefer to be at home with my children. I am quite comfortable with people doing the opposite and going to work but for me and my family home is best.
Xenia - completely disregarding people's viewpoint and shouting louder (and perhaps in a posher accent than others as you have mentioned) is not democracy, it is bad manners which ever side of the railway you live!

It is nothing to do with not agreeing with someone.

Maybe the title of the thread is misleading you somewhat as it is not quite specific enough to the OP.

The original question was regarding the mother of a child with special needs. Your points of view are misplaced here. By all means take it to another thread as many people have politely asked you, but why persist in upsetting someone by obstinately continuing your discussion here?

She can't cope with someone not agreeing with her? I certainly agree people should be courteous. I'm not sure it is wise not to comment though because the whole point of free speech is you can stand the views of others, tolerate them, be glad they are made even if you disagree with them.

I have never ever said I was superior to anyone. In fact I think I often say we are all equal under the eyes of God. There is probably very little harder than caring for a severely disabled child. I don't think I could do it.

If someone feels it is the right thing to do to stay at home then I don't see why if someone says otherwise that troubles them.

It's like the Chinese banning certain sites on Google. We just don't want to move anywhere in that direction.

Xenia as i said i usually dont mind what you have to say, its great that some women work and raise children and others do not.. But in this instance you are coming across as someone who thinks they are superior. And that's not right.
I accept your choices suit your personality, but to feel superior to another woman, who decides to let go of her career to look after her children, especially if it means dedicating time to look after a child with SN, is unacceptable imo.

Please can everyone stop posting now on this thread and respect the wishes of the original poster.
Please start a new thread to discuss the benefits of working fulltime or being an SAHM to which I will be happy to contribute.

No, don't be silly. Are we saying people hav a kind of proprietary interest in a thread they start - that say a pro breastfeeder can force off bottle feeders who set out the merits of the bottle? If you think your feelings might be hurt you either need therapy or to stay off internet bulletin boards. If you aren't robust enough to cope with contrary views then you need to join groups where everyone shares your view which is why people join churches, the masons, gentleman's clubs in London or even tennis clubs.

yr, I know we disagree on that but 99.9% of fathers in the UK have close loving relationships with their children and only see them after work. I really don't see why the same comment doesn't apply to them. Why have children and work? Because people always want to work. It doesn't make the chidlren a hobby in any sense. Most parents would see their chidlren as a life long important aspect of their life which is completely different from buying a fast car or cultivating dahlias or whatever they do. The fact you only see the children for a few ours a day which is true anyway once they turn 5 and are at school is enither here not there to your commitment as parent. Indeed perhaps you're more committed if you look to their long term financial interests and the good of the family and your own psychological health never mind the good of other women and work etc.

Wot, if it's dull don't read it. You can post what you like. I would hate people not to do that. I would hope most of us would be prepared to die to allow others in this country the free speech to say things in which they believe. It's why we fight around the world against dicators and why we fought off hitler etc. We need to be a nation where people can come here and say Jesus is an idiot, Mohammed is a freak, gays will burn in hell and all whites are thick etc or even God forbid women benefit their children if they work.... roll on South Park.

Why having children if you end up beating them up and shouting at them the whole day? Life is full of questions. Apart from Xenia, I don't understand why a woman who is committed to her jobs and to her children should be asked why having children if you then go to work full time.

Xenia I pushed a button there didn't I, sorry to get you going.

What I did say was 'I understand that you would like to have your say and that is your right, however with respect to 2shoes'

I consider that the op has been answered and this is now quite dull. I would really like to come and sit on your high horse one day the view must be so different up there, how little we must all look.

Just carrry on then, as I say you have your right, but I can't be bothered to read it anymore.

here here yellowrose, i have myself on more than one occasion thought, why have them?!

i agree that xenia must have her say, even if it is a terribly dull act.

i have a fundamnetal issue with what xenia says on the basis that if you don't like spending more than 2 hours per day with a child and basically can't stand pre-school children, then why have FIVE ?

it is like saying, oh well, i like children, i just don't like it when they are 2 or 3 or 10 or grumpy teenagers, etc so the way i will make those periods pass is by getting a nanny or childcare and doing full-time work which i will advertise as fulfilling me as an intellectual woman which will then shut other people up .

i don't see children as some designer accessory, the type you pick up to match a certain period in your life, and if they don't match you give them to someone else to look after until you get over your headache.

that is the crux of what xenia is saying, the rest of it, the power feminism, running the country for the sake of other women, etc. is a fig leaf. i hope other posters have been able to notice this too ? it comes across in every single post.