for wanting to walk in the park without being bounced on by giant b*stard dogs?

WMMC - what made you think that was an appropriate comment to write?

WMMC - or a small child approaching a dog? I cannot comment on your particular experience which must have been terribly traumatic. But, I still advocate that a well trained dog is an asset to a family and not a danger. If you strongly feel that all dogs are dangerous then I would advise you to try to get some help with this rather than assume all dogs are going to do the same thing. Incidentally, if my dogs were to do anything at all that would lead me to believe they were not 'safe' to be around, I wou;ld have no qualms in putting them down immediatley.

Spawn - I'm not sure what you think your comments will achieve? I have strong opinions on this topic, if you disagree with me then state your case instead of adding a dull inane comment that has no purpose to the dicussion.

Oh and yes cats are evil, vindictive vicious beasts. That's why I have them Connie . They remind me of you.

The first step in a dog attack is often a dog approaching a small child though Connie.

I was attacked by a very large dog that ran up to me. I stood still and the owner said, don't woory he won't bite. Next minute he sank his teeth into my elbow severing veins and crushing bone in my arm AND I KNEW I HAD TO STAY THERE TILL HE LET GO BECAUSE ONCE HE LET GO I KNEW I WAS GOING TO HAVE AN ARTERIAL BLEED.

Also he was likely to go for my neck next - he came up to my chest in height.

His owner came within one minute and called him off and, an animal lover I believed it was a one off and let it go.

The next week the dog attacked a toddler who is now scarred for life.

This was not a dog with a history of violence. Nor was it a vicious breed. But good dogs do sometimes go bad.

So personally I wouldn't have a poorly evolved wolf around with kids myself. If you choose to, that's your lookout, just keep away from the parents and kids you find so loathesome won't you?

Connie - you really are a one-trick pony, aren't you?

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaawwwwwwwwwwwww wwwwwwwwwwwwwwwnnnnn

WMMC - I'm not sure what you are trying to debate with me? I am not denying that dogs haven't injured and killed children - hence the dangerous dog act. That of course is terrible and tragic (but usually the owners fault).

There is a huge difference between this and dogs knocking into toddlers in a playful manner at the park is there not?

My dd was scratched nastly by a cat recently (we are not a cat loving family) but I didnt over react and go off on one about nasty evil manky cats - instead we talked about why it might have happened etc and that not all cats are evil creatures intent on harm.

I think its a good thing that children are taught to respect animals and how/ when to approach them. A responsible owner will always want their dogs to socialise with people because thats how as a puppy they learn to be with people.

I don't care if people like or don't like my dogs but without socialising them as puppies, they wouldn't be the well behaved dogs they are today around people.

and I wouldn't fancy your chances in the US either:

A survey by the national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta ("CDC") concluded that dogs bite nearly 2% of the U.S. population

I have been scared of dogs since I was a child (2 overzealous dogs who jumped up and knocked me down and clambered all over me when I was v young), I really try not to pass this on to my DS's.
However, I think a healthy "respect" of dogs is good, I would rather they were not too fond of dogs that they run up and stroke every dog that they see.
I too think that dogs should be on leads in public places, particularly in parks and owners should clear up their dog's sh*t too.
There is a major problem with some owners, who are just selfish and thoughtless tbh, like the woman at DS1's preschool who brings her bull terrier thing and ties him up right by the bloomin entrance so you can't avoid the slathering dog when collecting your child.
Just because you love your dogs, don't expect every one else to.

The Office of National Statistics records the number of deaths caused by dangerous dogs as an average of 2.3 a year from 1999 to 2005. More than 3,000 people are recorded injured by dogs each year but many more incidents, like Samantha's bite, go unreported'

no unreasonable at all - im not a dog lover, i dont want to pet someone else's treasure nor do i want to dodge the shit

"Chocolate, nobody mentioned dogs savaging children"

and its not just 'big vicious looking dogs' that are on the look out to attack your child at any given opportunity. Best keep your gun handy for those yorkshire terriers as well.

WMMC - didn't they what? I'm not dismissing opinions btw I am responding to some of the totally over the top 'opinions' contained in this thread......like those of yellowrose!

Yellowrose, I think your time would be better spent trying to get help with your dog phobia and helping your son appreciate and understand animals than planning how to stab a dog up its arse in the event of a savage attack. Carrying a weapon? Are you serious?

I don't hate dogs, I quite like them and have had discussions with DH about getting one, we're not going to though.

It's definitely irresponsible dog owners that get me. There are loads of dogs round here and the majority are well trained and their owners seem to be very aware that bouncing dogs ARE scary for small children. There are a couple of lovely people that will always stop when their dogs are on the lead for DS & DD to stroke.

I do object to the complete idiots who are completely clueless and to DD having had an over enthusiastic border collie land on her lap when she was in her buggy aged about 2, and who sort of muttered an apology and cruised off leaving me with a squashed, dishevelled, scared DD.

And if a dog owner can't understand that a bouncing dog is intimidating for a toddler and take steps to prevent an incident where a child does end up terrified by the dog, as many many dog owners seem to manage to avoid, then I don't think they should be allowed to own a dog .

agree. i hate big vicious-looking dogs as was bitten and attacked on 2 occassions when a child. am now so paranoid have asked people what to do if god forbid ds gets attacked by one. my favourite was shove a stick or pen up its arse, as it will force it to let go. very difficult to get a dog off when it has its jaws locked. of course it may then turn round and bite YOUR arm right off, but i would do anything at all to get a dog off my child and don't care if i get attacked if it will save my son. i have considered carrying a knife and would buy a gun if it were legal as a weapon against a dangerous dogs. quite happy to go to prison for carrying a dangerous weapon if it saves my son.

too many children are killed in this country by dogs who have owners who are too selfish and stupid. we are a country of fecking dog lovers, that is the problem. in other countries notice how small children are adored and picked up and hugged by total strangers (i have just come back from Spain where every waiter would pick up ds and show him around the restaurant and give him a toy) over here we treat dogs better than children. it is dogs that get hugged and patted on the head over here. you work it out !

Connie - really - didn't they? Have you read the thread? Squonk, BohemianBint, Kimi, Kerela and GreebosWhiskers would probably disagree with you. Or are you going to dismiss all our opinions as 'full of it' as well.

That's the point of the OP though isn't it? 'Over-zealous' dogs are often not kept on leads. Dogs jumping up at people isn't the end of the world either but why should anyone put up with it when it can be avoided? And remember that for a toddler a dog on the loose is probably relative in size to a galloping pony.

And of course it makes a differnec to mb's child if the dog is on a lead. She keeps her ds away from the dog and the dog is kept away from him.

Chocolate, nobody mentioned dogs savaging children - thats exactly the kind of hysterical over reaction I was pointing out. The fire scenario is an equally ridiculous statement to make that doesn't even warrant a response.

MB, I'm sure there are lots of other environments and places that trigger your childs asthma other than a park with dogs and whilst I sympathise with this I can't see how having a dog on a lead would make a diference?

Finally, I don't think dogs jumping up at people and knocking children down etc is appropriate but its not the end of the world either. A dog who has a tendency to be a bit overzealous should be either kept on the lead in parks (not woodlands/ fields etc) or have a much more aware owner who is working on the issue. Its just the same as parents taking a child who is in a biting/ hitting phase to a childs playground - they should either not do it or keep an eye on their child and make sure its dealt with.

I keep my dogs on the lead in the park but only because I usually have my children and pushchair with me, dogs will be off the lead if we go across the fields or in woodlands.

I love jogging round our local park but it's a lot less fun when dogs are around. Most are OK but you get the odd psycho dog and there's no way of telling from a distance.

I think for a lot of owners the physical intimidation aspect is part of the appeal. ("wanting a big dog for protection")

Not so nice for other park users.

Great name change btw

(that was me, Vulva340 btw)

I did actually consider it MartianB. It was an insight to something I had never even thought about.

Connie, if a dog bounds up to my son in the park it will give him an asthma attack.

What are your views on that? Is my son never to be able to go to the park because people want to let their dog off the leash?

And yes, he really is that allergic. Even in the open air!

No-one seems to want to comment on this one.

dionnelorraine - I actually agree that if you are in woodland you have to expect animals, it's a natural environment and TBH I reckon dogs cause less mess than the families who leave all their picnic rubbish behind on the heaths!

It's the squirrels I worry about (vicious bastards)

But I think the owner has to train their dogs to return and not to wander too far.