to not be particularly pleased when ds comes home from nursery having read a book about all the monsters in Dr Who?

Ahh Help help what have I done? I meant to start a new topic and this happened How embarassing. Ever so sorry about this, I'll creep away quietly now. Past my bedtime I think (only 5h sleep last night)

Ah this forum is just what I need after this happened to me numerous times.

... to be really really annoyed when people get in the wrong lane at a roundabout and then cutting in front of you!!! Soooooo dangerous!

Ooops - should have been tales!

the grimm brothers fairy tails now they were scary, and they still get read to children dumbed down versions now i guess but the originals were quite twisted! all mine watch dr who and if any get a little scared we just make a joke out of it and make it seem funny to them. I also respect the other point of view as there are somethings I don't let mine watch which others believe are ok!

Well said, Ruby. Dr Who is essentially a modern fairy tale where good aways triumphs over evil. Since the dawn of story telling, children have learned their essential morality from monsters and monster slayers.

I am very happy for my child to watch Dr Who, but have respect for the opposite view point (providing they're not allowed to watch Eastenders)

That's interesting, Filly. I guess it all boils down to whether you like Dr Who or not. I've always felt that the violence on Dr Who was very camp, which is probably why some kids like it and don't get too many nightmares about it.

Now Eastenders .... I find that hugely violent!

well i do pretty much agree ruby

so think that franny IS being utterly reasonable. in her judgement her ds shouldn't be watching it. yep.

see my 3 1/2 yo doesn't really get reality/fantasy. he seems to, but if you go deep down, he DOESN'T get it.

My BIG concern with dr who really is the normalisation of violence.

no you are NOT being feckin unreasonable

i would be utterly, utterly . only more so.

dr who scares me, I only watch it really because it is really set in cardiff and david tennant looks like dp, (only a little less handsome)

Found out today that dd (2) knows all about the 'monters' on Dr Who! She is remarkable blase about them too.

They would have been exterminated!

hmm, does this mean I owe you a choc bar or not?

I think it's not proven.

Haven't read the whole thread, but my ds (2.6) loves Dr Who. Whenever I'm on the computer he asks me to 'show him the monsters.'

I do get where you're coming from on this, Franny ... but I don't know, there's something about Dr Who that makes it OK for me. Children learn when they're engaged ... and Dr Who is a very engaging concept; good old fashioned good versus evil, after all. It could be worse.

I think a 3 to 4 yr old watching something go round in circles is a good use of 'educational' time, yes.

I think targets etc for this age group are crazed. So long as they are getting some social interaction out of attending a group, and the adults involved are kindly and nurturing, they will learn more than enough.

Glad to hear it catsmother as I thoroughly approve of Dr Who!

Maiou I get your point about three hours a day but I'm with Juule on this. 'A good use of educational time' makes me raise my eyebrows a bit - it's preschool, not GCSE year, surely it should be learning through play? What makes me uncomfortable is the idea that tick boxes and targets have taken over to the point where children aren't allowed to play with what interests them because the adults think it's not 'improving' or 'educational' enough. Seems a terribly Gadgrindian, reductionist view of learning for small children to me.

I'm not having a go at you, just interested in the thinking behind the goals and targets that are set for pre-school learning. If this is what Osted says you should be doing - not letting small children play with the things that interest them then I think there's something wrong with the system. Learning shouldn't be something artificial that adults inflict on small children, it's just what they do all the time naturally. Surely any nursery or pre-school setting should be supporting that, not obstructing it? Who decides what sort of play has value and what sort doesn't? Is watching raindrops run down a windowsill OK, or not?

My 2.2 year old dd loves Dr Who - I tried on a long mac thing in M&S the other day & wound up buying it when she informed me it was 'like Dr Who's coat'. I didn't let her watch last weekend's episode tho' as the trailers looked a bit scary. She thinks the daleks are funny - when I was small they scared the piss out of me. I used to tell myself I was okay 'cos my room was upstairs so they couldn't get me & then one day they learned how to fly aaarrrgh.

Actually, after the first dalek episode of the Chris Ecclestone series I had a dream that it was chasing me along our street so they obviously still scare me

Franny, my DS is 4 and up until this weekend I would have agreed with you, still don't let him watch Dr Who but this weekend he came home from playing with a friend and I had Pirates of the Caribbean on he plonked himself down and I tried to cover his eyes while I frantically sought out the remote - the scene where all the skeletons are walkling about was on. He promptly informed me 'stop being silly mummy I like the scary bits, it's just pretend' well I felt right put in my place - still turned it off though!!

"I find it quite sad that you don't see any value in children of 3/4 watching a toy going round in circles."

Seriously?? You think that is a good use of educational time???

"Everything a child does shouldn't have to be broken down into targets and tick boxes."

Well that's education for you! We have a curriculum we have to follow and though we have a lot of freedom within it, we still have a certain amount of things to cover in a term.

"If you did need to break down the learning then maybe the child is learning about forces, speed, balance, batteries, electricity, colour, road safety and as Edam says concentration."

We touched on these points when we had it on the table at talk time.

"The child could be learning all kinds of things from playing with the toy but is taken away from playing with it to take part in someone else's idea of a 'better' learning experience which fits adults targets and outcomes and goals."

We're back to the aims, structure and curriculum of education. I don't make the rules.

Miaou, I find it quite sad that you don't see any value in children of 3/4 watching a toy going round in circles. They are learning all the time. Everything a child does shouldn't have to be broken down into targets and tick boxes. If you did need to break down the learning then maybe the child is learning about forces, speed, balance, batteries, electricity, colour, road safety and as Edam says concentration. The child could be learning all kinds of things from playing with the toy but is taken away from playing with it to take part in someone else's idea of a 'better' learning experience which fits adults targets and outcomes and goals. It seems a bit like waking someone up to take a sleeping pill to me.