to expect my DS aged 4 to not break / trash everything he touches

my 4 yr old dd has got worse since she started full time school. she was a born terror, so it's not about 'being a boy'
now she's at school with others all day, she's learning some nice words to go with it too , lovely

hey mummydoit, mine also liked to empty out the 'small pieces' stuff. i got sick of asking them not to, so (after quite a few warnings) i spent 5 hours sorting it out like you did......into bags for the charity shop.

she likes to trash everything she comes into contact with, don't know why! i am always finding stuff that she has stashed under her pillow or under her bed, often ripped into little pieces, wtf?

i spend all my time with her trying to get the message through. thing is, she gets the message, she just likes doing it anyway. i'm sure it's just age ......

Gingerj, sympathies, it's just a phase!
My DS was 4 last Sept and started full time Reception then (we are in Wales) - his behaviour showed marked improvement as I think he was more than ready for the challenge/stimulation of school. Also, he has recently improved again e.g. on Bank Hol Monday spent all morning happily colouring/painting masterpieces (tidily in colouring books rather than over walls etc). His teacher also recently told me that his behaviour at school is a lot less boisterous and he is helpful putting things away in class etc.
He's now at the stage where he 'plays' properly on his own (doesn't constantly whinge for me or DH to play with him) and helps to toys away etc Does occasionally go a bit mad but these episodes are getting fewer and far between.
Best advice I can give you whilst your DS is in this energetic phase is to physically tire him out as much as possible - park, playgroup, indoor climbing frame place etc
I think I read somewhere on MN that this age is when boys get a big testosterone rush, akin to adolescence, which is why they test us.
Sorry for long post, but HTH

I know this is a couple of days old but just wanted to add that, yes, I have a son like this too. He's a bit like Tigger from Winnie the Pooh, after it's happened he knows he shouldn't have done it but 5 minutes later his natural bouyancy returns & he's causing havoc again.

Sometimes it's naughtiness but other times it's curiosity.

gingersj I have a ds like this too. Mine's 3.4 years. Sympathies.

Very wearing. He is my 4th child and yes they all have their moments but ds3 is the limit...the others weren't like this in such a sustained way. I can't even say he's short of attention as the others are at school full time so he gets me to himself from midday - after playgroup - until 4pm ish.

Very cuddly but very destructive.

It takes no time at all to scribble biro on a white door while one is answering the door to take in a delivery (wait until your dd is older manictigger), or to throw all the cutlery out of the drawer into a messy pile on the kitchen floor while some laundry is being folded.

Not to mention the tantrums...

Sorry gingersj, no answers but you aren't alone.

I think you might have to let some of this just not annoy you. He is four, and he will do childish, annoying things, like the paper and recipe cards in the car. If this were me I'd just let it wash over me. He can do it if he wants, it's just another way of playing! So long as he picked the stuff up at the end, no worries. Playing I-Spy and 20 questions etc in the car can sometimes keep some kids happy, some can't keep themselves out of trouble in the car without lots of distractions, specially when they're four.

If you work full time, some of this MAY be to do with getting your attention when you are around. Some annoying person talking to you at the door is taking you away when you should be with him, is what he's probably thinking. So yes, he's doing it to wind you up because being a good boy hasn't worked (eg you've gone and ignored him to talk to someone else).

He sounds to me like he needs loads of input, and why not, he is only four. Still so young.

But I agree, he does need to learn that he will get a consequence for deliberately naughty stuff, like time out or something. But I think he needs the benefit of the doubt first; if he's doing something, can you involve him with you more or give him more of your attention first, before you assume he's just naughty and destructive.....if you have tried to involve him with you and he's still doing it then yes, he needs a consequence.

I have a DS aged 4 like this.... The dirty clothes don't bother me but I'm not going to pretend I always manage with the diversion tactics.

I also think that sometimes it's fun to trash a room: DS2 adores making a mess and says it's his favourite! This morning I had perfect peace and quiet to get dressed, very unusual, so I knew they were up to mischief. But I also knew they were in their own bedroom, so I let them get on with it, and then told them off and tried to get them to help tidy up when it suited me.

blimey manic, don't apologise! Agree with what you say about letting the housework go a bit. I think there's a balance to be struck; I wanted to spend 100% of the time with my ds and couldn't care less about the house, and some people want the house 100% clean; definitely a happy medium there somewhere!

Sorry Sunny, I completely agree with you and wouldn't have bothered posting if I'd seen yours but it took me a while to come up with a way of putting things that (hopefully) wouldn't offend anyone.

Well mummy.. I have an 8 month old daughter who is starting to move around so yes I do have to keep an eye on her practically 100 % of the time she's awake (and not in her cot) so we spend most of the time playing. I only do things that I can easily do whilst keeping her in my sight eg. ironing. Cooking, cleaning (MNing) etc happens either when she's asleep or DH is around (or as quite often, it doesn't happen at all but hey, I can't imagine wishing I'd done more housework on my deathbed ) I can't help feeling that if you give children a bit more attention or get them involved in what you're doing (like Sunnyside suggested), they'll trash the house less. It's all about deciding what's important to you in your home. Annoying behaviour would wind me up more than a dirty house I think.

Not that any of the options are easy and obviously some children demand more attention than others so I've got sympathy with the OP.

mummydoit, if it's the occasional thing then I guess it's not a problem; if they can usually play nicely that's great. But I do think if a child is constantly trashing stuff then the parent needs to assess their expectations - it may not be possible to get all the cleaning, washing, ironing, changing sheets, done as well as have a non-pesky child.....the parent may need to let some of that stuff go hang while they play with their child instead.

I know my ds was very labour intensive at pre-school age, he wanted and needed lots and lots of positive play. DH and I expected to do some house stuff in the evening when ds had gone to sleep, and used to give each other a morning on the weekends to do a proper clean/change beds/etc.

TBH I am with moondog. I think a 4yo should know better than to scribble in books, take keys off laptops, stab fish etc, my almost 3yo does and has done for some time. I also agree with others about dirty clothes and jumping in puddles - that is what children do. DD was wearing white trousers yesterday and got absolutely filthy on the slide - but that was my fault for putting her in white trousers - they are handmedowns, they will bleach.

Manictigger - duck while I shower you with lego . Where were we when the kids were doing all this? Well, let me think. Washing, ironing, cleaning, cooking. Any of 1001 household jobs. DSs are 3 and 4 and can normally be trusted to play nicely. Do you watch your kids 100% of the time? The monumental mess was achieved in about 15-20 minutes while I was upstairs changing sheets. My kids aren't in the habit of being destructive but we do have occasional incidents. Don't you?

I think some of this is about adjusting your expectations ginger...that can be a good way of saving some sanity. For example I think bringing leaves etc into the house, going through three sets of clothes, jumping in puddles are absolutely normal and things you simply have to accept will happen when you have a child. Let this sort of thing go!

When he's scribbling, I agree, be positive about it "Oh, you're drawing, here is some paper for drawing. Books are for reading not drawing". It's basically diversion. He needs to do all the stuff he's doing - your job as parent is to find him ways he can do it appropriately.

Where are you when he's trashing the living room? I'm NOT blaming you for not being with him 24/7 btw; just again, it's about expectations. If you were upstairs putting washing away, or in the kitchen cooking, then maybe you need to adjust your expectations of what your ds can do without supervision. Maybe he needs to be with you, "tidying" the kitchen cupboards (eg playing with the saucepans) while you get stuff done.

I think you need to assume that your ds needs almost constant supervision at the moment and a good amount of direction.

Jeez, where are you lot when your kids are doing these things?! Surely removing all keys from a keyboard or smearing Vaseline over a room takes time, did you not check on what they were doing at any point? And mummydoit, I think if they were over 4 I would have insisted that they help you clear it up. (5 hours, are you mad!?)

I'm with Moondog, for your own and your childrens' sanity, teach them what is and isn't acceptable as young as possible. (However, I think splashing in puddles etc is just having fun not being naughty and spilling things is just what children do)

disappears back to Utopia as defensive mums shower her with Lego

Can't give you any advice but I can sympathise! My two are the youngest children in both our families. We inherited lots of toys, handed down from various nieces and nephews in pristine condition and the vast majority have ended up only fit for the dustbin. DS2 is the worst. He has pulled the wallpaper border off the walls in their bedroom. We've also had the sudocreme episode too, plus one time he smeared himself and the bedroom in Vaseline and that is impossible to clean off! Just a couple of weeks ago, they both emptied the shelves in their playroom. Two boxes of Brio, one box of Duplo, a box of farm animals, about 20 jigsaws and a whole heap of games, all tipped out onto the floor in a huge pile. No joking, it took me FIVE hours to sort everything out.

I would say be strict but fair, but be realistic about what you want him not to do.

I would come down hard on him for breaking things on purpose, hurting pets and scribbling on books, I would be a bit more chilled about dirty clothes, bringing trophies into the house and jumping in puddles.

Consistentcy is important as is praise and the chance to feel like a good boy and feeling able to do things well. I would be very careful not to give rows for clumsyness, and giving mixed messages about what behaviour is acceptable.

its so exhausting.......?

We've had Sudocrem thrown down the stairs- the only thing that gets it off is baby wipes! This was on the same day that DS1 put a large pot of strawberry yogurt in the middle of the living room floor and jumped on it! Funnily enough, it was just before his 4th birthday.