To think that people who can't be arsed to vote are lazy.

Hills, do yu never moan about stuff like council tax, police, fire, education, hospitals, rubbish collection?

Because if you do and you dont vote, quite frankly you have lost your voice

moomin if I dont want to vote its my right not to, I dont really care what you or anyone else thinks. It has really hasn't got anything to do with you.

my mum is a cll. she is decent, honest and extremely hard working. She never claims expenses like the other candidates in her ward (some of whom see the whole thing as a meal ticket) as she sees her work for local government as a duty.

She would never forgive me if I did not vote. Society is what we make it. One person really can make a difference so stand up and be counted.

So I still think voting should be compulsory. If you want education and healthcare you should have to vote. No arguments, no reason why not, you just should have to.

The point of no suitable candidate would be when there really isnt any good choice. You need to stop the view that all politicians / councillors etc are idiots and that's why I did not vote....if there was no suitable candidate, that would be better than not voting at all.

BTW, Congrats to my mum, a first time councillor announced today with 1000 votes.... x

if all there is on offer to the disillusioned non-voter is "oh buck up and stand yourself" we are doomed, doomed i tell you.

this is really pissing me off and i do blimmin vote every blimmin time!

bye!

the greatest enemy is apathy. it makes me very angry.

'oh, nothing will change, I can't do anything about it anyway blah blah blah' fuck off.

do something about it, starting by voting, even if tactically.

write to MPs. start your own party.

agree entirely with OP

i really dislike marie antoinette-ish responses generally.

ok tsap i wasn't taking issue with you but with the notion that people had some kind of moral obligation to stand themselves if dissatisfied with the line-up of candidate. this is simplistic in the extreme.

I wanted to be a councillor, I was a protest in the sense that I wanted to do something different, wanted perhaps to be more representative of your average working woman but my intentions to stand were sincere and I would have worked bloody hard.

IN the event I did work hard and continue to do so but just undewr someone elses name.

well maybe I live in a town that has unusually altruistically minded councillors as it is certainly not the case here. Even the councillors I strongly disagree with are doing the job to help their community.

and i don't think it's right to stand as a protest candidate if you have no desire to actually be a councillor.

my comments are true in my experience.

you're right - democracy is expensive.

in practise, it would be very unlikely for fresh candidates to be needed.

Of the councillors I know, and I know most of our local ones I cannot think of many if any if I am being honest who are "career" politicians they are people who want to make a difference in their local commnity.

If I would have stood I could be classed a s a career politician as I do have some desire to enter politics full time but that would not mean that I did not have genuine reasons for wanting to be a counsellor and would not have worked towards improving my town,

I was not happy wth some of the candidates who stood at our last election so despite holding down two jobs one of which is a teaching post so I work very very long hours, studying, supporting a grieving relative and having a family and an illness that constantly saps my energy I tried to stand as a candidate. When I was told I couldn't I dedicated my time to canvassing and supporting the person I thought was a good councillor - (yesterday I took a unpaid day off work so I could put about 8 hours in) and she got in thanks in part to my efforts. I have also every weekend for the past four weeks been out for hours, (sometimes with dd following me or listening to a book I need for school on my ipod!) leafleting, doing admin work and canvasssing.

Surely if I can find all that time you lot can find two minutes to bloddy vote.

I

Your comments on councillors developing careers in politics are untrue. Most local councilors do not hold ambitions for higher office. They are interested in local politics. And of course continue to progress in their own careers. Seeking fresh candidates would be expensive (elections are very expensive) and time consuming. Actually I would be in favour of this option if voting were compulsory, but things need to be run while the wheels of democracy slowly turn, and a constant return to the polls because people weren't fond of the people who put themselves forward, while standing on the sidelines themselves, would e frustrating and detrimental to local government.

you will find it much harder to stand outside a party framework for support - which is what you were presumably suggesting.

you don't have to campaign, but you won't get elected if you don't what is the point of that?

councillors who have f/t jobs are normally not building careers in their jobs but in politics.

not liking any of the available candidates is a valid democratic choice. someone doesn't have to win - if RON or NSC wins - then fresh candidates are sought. that's much better in my opinion than a protest vote for a party you don't agree with.

I stood as a candidate when working full time. Many councillors also have full time jobs. Of course. But you don't have to campaign. But you will have someone to vote for.

And no deposit in local elections. Just 10 signatures.

And someone will win. Someone has to win. Because somebody has to do the job. What is the point of 'none of the above'?

Sheesh.

Re: Scotland and overly complicated ballot papers - I have read some comments from Scottish voters who have said everything was explained really clearly on the paper. One went on to say that this was Darwinian in weeding out people not able to read instructions who therefore couldn't be trusted to vote.

Am I an awful awful person to find that quite a funny thing to say? I am, I am sure.

The thought that ballot papers could be complicated thus disenfranchising people is utterly shocking to me, btw. I'm not making light of that aspect at all.

But at least if you vote for 'no suitable candidate', it could send the message that they are all rubbish and none are addressing the issues you need them to listen to...

Would be interesting if 'no suitable candidate' won????!

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CHOICE ON OFFER, GET 10 SIGNATURES AND STAND YOURSELF.

oh yeah? what about the £500 deposit? what about those of us who work full time?

sheesh.

i used to think so - now i think that until there is an option such as "re-open nominations" or "no suitable candidate" or somesuch - i don't see any reason it is somehow more worthy/responsible/civic minded to vote for a party you don't agree with than simply to stay at home...

I am really trying not to get really angry with DH, who could not be arsed...I even took the kids down there with me to vote, but he could not be bothered.

FFS, his dad fought in the world war, what more reason does he need?

then of course he will bitch and moan about how the local council charge us an extortionate 1200 council tax and how planning is all to sh't etcetera etcetera. It is going to be a long time of me biting my tongue.

Why can't voting be made compulsory with an option on the ballot paper for none of the above..???

BTW, if I lived in Scotland, I would be demanding a re-election. This is what African regimes do, make the vote so f'ing complex that not all can understand, so the papers get spoilt. It stinks of corruption and does not sound like the fair and democratic society we are supposed to be.

Spoiling a ballot paper is a wasted trip to the polling station. No-one takes any notice (they only look at it to check that it is spoilt, that's all) and you don't influence the outcome at all.

IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE CHOICE ON OFFER, GET 10 SIGNATURES AND STAND YOURSELF.

Or persuade someone else to do it. Don't moan about other people not being prepared to do something you yourself are not prepared to do. Independents are live and kicking in local governmant, and even if you don't have the time to campaign and win (and I think if you gave it a try you would maon a bit less about the candidates not knocking personally on several thousand doors), then at least you would be able to cast a valid vote and reduce the other candidates share of the vote. And if others felt equally disillusioned by the main parties, they could also cast a valid vote and that would be a protest worth making, rather than a spoilt ballot papar which makes no difference at all.

Count yourself lucky to live in a democracy and actively engage with it, instead of sitting back and moaning when other people do things which are not to your liking.

This is a really interesting thread. I too think people ought to vote, that it is their duty. However I don't believe in compulsory voting - choice is immportant.

I am totally with the poster commenting on the BNP - if the rest of the country is a little apathetic and does not vote, then the hotheaded extremists will automatically have a larger majority. And that is terrifying in itself.

We should def have a 'none of the above' or 'RON' option.

I have friends - female - who 'don't know anything about politics' so don't bother to vote. I can feel myself getting all Xenia about this and have to try not to start an argument - but honestly, people like that have no right to any opinion on the council tax, any tax really, the NHS, schools, etc - if they don't vote deliberately cos they cannot be bothered to do any research or even keep their eyes and ears open around election time then they forgo their right to moan.