To feel sympathy to the National Trust volunteers at Felbrigg Hall?

Bemused So, you left with a bad impression of the whole organisation of the NT because of a school's scarecrows? OK, perhaps this particular venue (remember, they do have some autonomy from head office) should have told the school that they wouldn't have displayed these two scarecrows but the issue is surely with the school and the teachers and not the NT???

I went to a National Trust property last week where they had scarecrows, made by local schoolchildren. Some were dressed in traditional folk costumes from other cultures. But amongst them there was a stereotypical xenophobic caricature of a Frenchman (stripy top and garlic) and a 'Muslim' scarecrow (dressed in a normal headscarf and Shalwa Kameez, of the kind you see every day in any major UK city). It felt very 'othering', bordering on insulting, particularly because these were actual scarecrows in an actual garden.

I left thinking that this was maybe not the most progressive organisation. This story just reinforces that impression.

The volunteer in question would probably have said 'but he didn't mind, we were having a lovely conversation'.

In fairness, so might the man being spoken to. You can't always take offfence on someone else's behalf. I have a British Chinese friend who gets this sort of thing sometimes (how long have you lived here? Etc). I was the one to take umbrage, until he himself asked me not to get snippy about it. From his point of view - which is, after all the one that matters - if he felt someone was being friendly, then he preferred to respond in a friendly manner, rather than correct their incorrect assumptions.

That said, fully agree that if someone does feel aggrieved, they should definitely write and tell the NT, or point it out directly at the time. As Shatner says, how else can they improve?

granny I crossposted because in your first reply you didn't mention that you had written.

This is why it's important, really, to say something at the time. In a properly that relies hugely on a large number of volunteers, it's actually relatively easy to not know which volunteer was on which desk at which time on which day.

It's like being in a restaurant. If you are unhappy about something, speak to the manager at the time, rather than leave it until later.

ShatnersWig they said they couldn't identify the volunteers concerned. How is that a no then?

TheCountessofFitzdotterel, that is the trouble now, it is done in a way that they can justify. Oh I didn't mean anything, Oh I didn't see them, Oh I thought they were waiting for someone else. Or in my case, lots of volunteers that day, sorry we can't identify them.

Maybe Shatnerswig, I would be reluctant to do so when I was effectively eavesdropping. The volunteer in question would probably have said 'but he didn't mind, we were having a lovely conversation'.
There needs to be a will to deal with this from the top down and research into its prevalence carried out among the actual recipients rather than well meaning bystanders, for it to get dealt with effectively.

That'll be a no, then.

How can an organisation get a message if no one actually TELLS them about their experiences?!! Madness.

Convenient hey?

ShatnersWig, they "couldn't identify the volunteers."

I meant write about it to the house manager, so they knew what had happened and could look into it to prevent it happening to other people?

On a day out when you are spending money, trying to have a nice time are you really expected to start conducting a campaign to encourage an organisation to train its staff or encourage the staff to behave in an appropriate manner?

I've voted with my feet and will never visit another NT property. If enough people who witness this sort of thing do the same maybe the NT will get the message.

granny So you didn't complain on the day? Did you write about it afterwards where you wouldn't have made a scene?

^ Well, your experience is quite different from mine!

Countess Why not? You thought enough of it to comment about it on here, where it changes nothing. As you say, the volunteer didn't realise it was inappropriate and it was a rather different case to that granny was describing. Maybe had you brought it politely and nicely to the attention of the manager - who can't watch every volunteer every minute of the day - something might have been done.

You also said You can acknowledge the NT has a problem with staff training in that area and wonder why they haven't prioritised it enough to sort it out, though. Perhaps because people who witness it can't be arsed to raise it at the time where it might actually be remedied, they just bitch about it online instead.

Do you think that would have been appropriate, Shatnerswig?

YetAnotherSpartacus, really? As a middleclass white woman I experience very little prejudice and although I object to the assumptions made about old people, male and female, being racist homophobic etc I don't find it means they get treated differently in fact it is generally a get out of jail free card as it is used to excuse unacceptable behaviour.

ShatnersWig, not it wasn't in fact, I was ignored by two volunteers behind the counter. That was the most blatant example but not the only one, just the final straw. If you read through the thread I'm not the only person to experience or witness such behaviour. The NT needs to deal with it, I don't care if they are volunteers, even if they pay the NT to let them go in and show their prejudice they shouldn't be allowed to do it.

I didn't complain on the day, we were meeting friends and they had chosen the place so I didn't want to make a scene, I am quite famous in the family for being the one who speaks up and challenges this sort of thing but wasn't appropriate on the day.

Countess But did you go and see the house manager, tell them what you'd witnessed so that that volunteer could be appropriately trained, just in case the visitor themselves chose not to, or to support the visitor in their comment?

I suspect that most women know what it is like to live with prejudice.

You can acknowledge the NT has a problem with staff training in that area and wonder why they haven't prioritised it enough to sort it out, though.
Grannytomine won't be the only person who has had experiences like that.
I am white so haven't been at the receiving end but have witnessed a volunteer at one of my local properties being cringingly inappropriate with a black visitor, asking what country he was from and saying how good his English was (he was from London). She was trying to be nice, but she needed telling that's not the best way to welcome visitors!

granny No, that was ONE VOLUNTEER and you should have reported them to the manager of the property (can't recall from earlier in the thread if you did or not at the time). The NT as an ORGANISATION is not racist or sexist or homophobic. It is an entity. if a volunteer has an issue, you remove them or train them appropriately. You cannot, I'm afraid, as you appear to be doing, tar the whole NT for the actions of one volunteer.

I wish people would stop being ageist, I'm old, I'm in the age group that is supposed to support Brexit, homophobia and racism and I bloody don't. Being old isn't some sort of reason or excuse or a stick to beat us with. Old people fought for lots of the freedoms you get today, some old people are horrible and so are some young people. My father and FIL both came to this country in the early 40s as they wanted to fight for freedom and against fascism, some of their generation are still around. In some cases, like my FIL, they gave everything for us to live in freedom so that a black man can marry a white woman, so that Jews don't have to live in fear, so that homosexuals don't get sent to concentration camps. The men and women who did that and still survive are old. Give them a break.

ShatnersWig well I felt excluded when they ignored me and wouldn't sell me tickets until the rest of the queue backed me up so I think there is a problem and they do need to include everyone and if volunteers can't do that then they shouldn't be in public facing roles.

lucydogz, then you don't understand what it is like to live with real prejudice. I am also an old heterosexual white woman and yes life looks like it is fair and why would we need campaigns but put me as half of a mixed race couple and I see a different world. That is the problem, you take it for granted you are welcome, you don't question that but it isn't the same for everyone.

I honestly don't understand why the National Trust feels the need to become involved in the sex life of one of its former property owners. Surely whom he chose to share his genitals with is if of no concern to anyone else!