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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

to have created a scene in Chez Gerard

139 replies

margoandjerry · 20/03/2007 16:17

Chez Gerard have just opened up on the high st in our small suburban town - it used to be a Cafe Uno which was always very family friendly.

I just went in there (3pm) with my mum and with the baby in pram - the place is huge and was 3/4 empty. The manager came and told us the pram would have to be folded or we would have to leave but a) it doesn't fold much as it's a bugaboo and b) the baby was asleep and would have slept all through lunch and c) it was not in the way at all so why?

He said it would get in the way of wheelchairs (of course there was no one in there in a wheelchair) but there was stacks of room anyway - you could have got a Red Arrows style squadron of wheelchairs through there. They had finished with lunch and there were only about 5 tables in use in the whole place. I said that we used to go there all the time when it was Cafe Uno which is owned by the same group and I even showed him where we used to sit, right at the back away from everyone and not causing the remotest obstruction.

He kept offering a high chair but the baby is too small for that and anyway, was fast asleep. I was furious and ranted away at him and all he could say was "it's company policy".

I wouldn't mind if this was in the City and full of adults at lunchtime or in the evening and full of people wanting a quiet meal together but it was in the middle of the afternoon, quiet as death and the baby was fast asleep.

I think this whole "you'll have to fold the buggy" thing is code for "no babies". Got the same attitude in Baker and Spice last week as well which made me even madder given Baker and Spice's target market which I assume to be posh mums.

I shouldn't really be bothered as we went down the road to a really nice local restaurant (not a chain) instead. Had a lovely meal and were made to feel very welcome. Also just remembered that I saw a mouse once in the Chez Gerard in Covent Garden. Pah. They are incompetent fools.

OP posts:
Ulysees · 22/03/2007 09:24

appalling spelling

Ulysees · 22/03/2007 09:23

that's appaling, what if you were a first time mum out for a treat? I feel like emailing chez gerard myself and never been in one in my life!

mm22bys · 22/03/2007 09:15

You were not being unreasonable given the place was mostly empty and the baby was sleeping...

We got thrown out of All Bar One when DS1 was 3 weeks old, it was a nice summer's day and were sitting outside. DH was at the bar getting our drinks and they saw DS and me so we got thrown out (even though DSs only drink was bm).

Boycooted it for a while, but occassionally before DS2 arrived and when DS1 was at nursery we would go there for child-free time...

We were at W*n's in King's Lynn and walked out becase we were one table away from their "family area" and they asked us to move. DH was at the bar, and they expected me to move myself, our bags, DS2, 4 winter coats, and they didn't even offer to help.

Food is c*p anyway, ended up at Cafe N*o!

amidaiwish · 22/03/2007 08:39

i went into this chez gerard in ted*ton with my two DDs the other day too...
wasn't made to feel welcome at all!
and my two are delightful well behaved angels (well most of the time) who walked in calmly and nicely

they looked at me like "oh great"...

and as you say ted*ton is full of mums and babies... they are going to have to widen the pavement. let's open a mums & tots cafe. badly needed.

satine · 22/03/2007 07:39

Please complain to the Head Office. I can't bear this mealy mouthed way of weaselling out of serving mums and kids whilst apparently advertising "child friendliness". I will certainly be avoiding Chez Gerard until they apologise to you properly!

As others have said, I'm all for having child-free restaurants when you're looking for a rare evening out with dh but somewhere like this, mid-afternoon, should be doing everything possible to accommodate all its clients.

Lwatkins · 22/03/2007 01:25

Haven't read through the whole thread so I appologise if I'm repeating what somebody else has said. No I don't think you are being unreasonable at all! They wouldn't ask a disabled person to get out of their wheelchairs and fold them up, would they? Yet it's perfectly acceptable for them to expect you to wake a sleeping baby, fold a pram and then do what? Where does the baby go? On the floor? On the table perhaps? What a moron that man was!

I would have been fuming if I were you, and if you have the time I would either write/email/ring HQ to complain about it. Don't go back, take your money elsewhere. Somewhere that IS family friendly.

catinthehat · 21/03/2007 22:56

One thing Minim left out was the £10 voucher available for those prepared to give their opinions direct to the company
clicky here
Maybe someone didn't fancy addressing all those envelopes.

FlossALump · 21/03/2007 22:52

its all very well if you can lift your sleeping baby out of the pram and hold them still sleeping... DS wouldn't allow that however! ANd - how lovely to have the chance of a sleeping baby + meal out! Manager was a twonk.

DominiConnor · 21/03/2007 22:49

Normally I'd be with tribpot, but...
DS2 from 6 months to about 2 had a really impressive scream. It left ripples in coffee, and could keep it up for extended periods by pacing himself. This resulted in pauses, then screams just as you thought he'd calmed down.

Was actually vaguely scary, sounded more predator than helpless baby.

If some minimum wage jerk started screwing with me like that, the option of waking him would get very attractive.

maisym · 21/03/2007 22:47

tripot - hoping they wouldn't but if they ask for prams/pushchairs to be folded perhaps space is a problem. what about larger pushchairs for special needs?

why common sense can't be used sometimes...

tribpot · 21/03/2007 22:42

maisy - I'm assuming not as my dh's wheelchair doesn't fold. Would they throw him out? Based on today's anecdote they might try There's no freaking way I'd take a sleeping child out of a buggy, esp in a virtually empty restaurant.

foxinsocks · 21/03/2007 22:42

she's said it already DC

(in fact, I looked in today and I saw lots of children/babies in there!)

maisym · 21/03/2007 22:39

so do you have to fold wheelchairs as well?

DominiConnor · 21/03/2007 22:33

Obviously I don't want to invade margoandjerry's privacy but...
Is there any reason for us not to know which Chez Gerard it was ?

hana · 21/03/2007 21:37

I remember i had a double buggy few years back and wanted to stop on my highstreet for a cake and cuppa....it was about 11am...there was NO ONE in this cafe and the manager refused to open up the double doors to let me get in......he said he could serve me if I used the table on the pavement. could see if they were busy, or expecting a party or something.

I used to go to this place a lot with my dh and other mums, but haven't set foot in the place since. I tell everyone about that too, that's far worse for his business. (it's not far from T'ton or HH either, you'd think these managers would know better!)

catinthehat · 21/03/2007 21:32

Tee hee!!

catinthehat · 21/03/2007 21:30

Somehow I sense a bit of corporate panic has set in already MargoandJerry. Just get that feeling that someone will be off to the office very early tomorrow morning, trying to rescue an embarassing PR situation at "Brasserie Chez Gerard".

Housemum · 21/03/2007 21:13

It's easy to get v heated in this sort of debate but from what I can see it was a "families allowed" restaurant with enough space. I think there is no reason to refuse a polite request to keep your pram up, on the basis that

  • you do not obstruct any gangway
  • you accept that if you are stopping another table being used and the restaurant has a sudden influx, you would have to stow the pushchair elsewhere.
(difference with wheelchairs is if they need that wheelchair, they most likely cannot get out/use an alternative, whereas a sleeping baby can be lifted out, albeit that it makes eating tricky).

I was once confronted by a not-quite-so-jobsworth who let me keep DD asleep in pushchair on this basis and he was OK after that.

The pub business is a different matter - we have ridiculous licensing laws in this country which make it awkward to have children in some pubs - even if they have got a lovely garden away from the bar. If they haven't got a license, and you even have a newborn-in-a-sling who wouldn't know what a pub was, the landlord would get a hefty fine. But if they have served you, customer service would say they should be big enough to refund the drinks order if you have not already finished them, evn if you have had a few sips.

Littlemissbusy · 21/03/2007 21:12

Our Cafe Uno (in Egham, Surrey) has also just been turned into a Chez Gerard!! We had a fab meal their on Friday - couldn't fault it, especially as you can use Tesco Club Card Deal vouchers to pay for the food! Having said that - all the kids were at home with a babysitter!
But similar to all other postings - I would agree that the manager was being unreasonable, and definitely making a stink, then complaing to HO is the right thing to do!

Original poster
margoandjerry · 21/03/2007 21:11

also just to be clear, there was acres and acres of room for adults, children, wheelchair users, waitresses, mime artists, the entire cast of Magpie, a small stable of polo ponies...it's just a really, really spacious restaurant

If there had been any sensible reason behind his ban, I would have been sympathetic - there are quite a few places I don't take the baby if I think the pram might be in the way or prevent a hard-pressed small business from making money from paying customers - but this was all nonsense.

OP posts:
DominiConnor · 21/03/2007 21:02

I think it's valid to ask if the position you're taking just makes life harder for other mums in your position.

In this case, given that he's banning prams, it follows that there isn't any real prospect of him getting worse.
He had a place for wheelchairs, and I'd be shocked if a nearly empty restaurant had nowhere to put a pram.

Does it make things better ?
That's a bit harder to gauge. If he thinks he can get away with this, then the effort of arguing achieves nothing, even if it fails to make things worse.

If he gets bollocked by his management for causing his firm public embarrassment, then certainly something has been achieved.

It is of course possible that he was carrying out order and it's unreasonable to expect him to risk his job over this.

But if so, then Chez Gerard are the villain, and we need to put our heads together to see what we might do about this...

Original poster
margoandjerry · 21/03/2007 20:45

minim, I know what you are saying but it really was bizarre because there were several toddlers in there in high chairs and as someone has pointed out, they make a big deal of their family friendliness...

I'm all for child-free places but a suburban high st at 3pm on a Tuesday afternoon ain't one of them!

Thanks for all the feedback - must try that market in HHill. God knows what I've done with my mat leave - it's almost over and I haven't spent nearly enough time eating cakes in cafes

Anyway, will call the CG number (and thanks for that top tip dominiconnor) and see what happens (and report back)

OP posts:
tribpot · 21/03/2007 20:19

Bizarre - who the heck are Chez Gerard hoping to attract in the middle of the afternoon if not mums? Unemployed people with wads of spare cash?! Seems like a completely bonkers policy, and my dh is a wheelchair user.

powder28 · 21/03/2007 20:11

Feel i have to sing the praises of cafe rouge once more.
On xmas day we went there with my parents my fil and the kids. After the meal my dad went outside and got chatting to a busker. My dad then asked the manager if it was ok for this guy to come in and sing some songs. The manager said yes. This guy came in, had a drink and sang some Eagles songs in the middle of the restaurant. Most people were singing along etc and it was just a really nice day.
The kids were mesmerised, it was great.

powder28 · 21/03/2007 19:48

I really think it depends on the staff to be honest. If the management is good then the staff tend to be happier.
My husband has worked as an assistant manager in various restaurants and some of the attitudes from his superiors have been appalling, but some have been ok.
I have worked with my husband as well, but never again, as i think he can be a bit of a jobsworth