Big row between DH and my DM. AIBU or is he?

This is tricky. You say she is always right.. Does that mean she does not respect your wishes as parents? If your DH has been dealing with that a long time I can see why he'd want to minimize contact between her and DDs as that could greatly affect them and the way you're trying to bring them up.

That being said, going NC is a huge deal. We have family I don't really trust and definitely have marc tendencies, but I wouldn't cut them off completely. Maybe try compromising with DH about spending less time with her? In example :: if you see her twice a month, only see her once a month or every other month? If DH doesn't want to see her, just always tell her that he's busy.. but agree that he will be present for specific holidays? Then you can supervise visits with her and your DCs on a less frequent basis, but it isn't cutting off all contact between the DCs and your DPs. Sometimes less is more with difficult GPs and may help you guys to have a healthier relationship with her. I'd let your DH cool down about it and then sit him down about trying to find some sort of compromise.

Yes, some narcs are worse than others. My sil is a narcissist and a psychopath for example. My mother is totally unconscious of what she is doing. She doesn't mean to hurt me. She's oblivious most of the time and thinks she wants peace and harmony in the world and I'm the source of her ills, brings up past and perceived hurts because she doesn't feel listened to... was a unloved child, whose mother expected to be adored as she expects to be adored. She just wants to be heard. Some narcissists aren't as bad as this. Some are worse and it is a sliding scale. My sil is far worse as she likes to play with us, like prey.

I don't agree with PP saying that it's your husbands problem and that he needs to deal with it, it's your mum not his.

In every MIL thread where there is a problem the OP is told to get their partner/husband to idea with it.

Your mother is creating a divide - not only between you and your husband, but between your children, too. She is "golden child"ing your oldest daughter, and "scape goating" your younger.

Pretty soon, if this hasn't already begun to happen, your elder daughter is going to mimic your mother's behaviour towards your younger. Everything will suddenly become your younger daughter's fault, subtle manipulations will be put into play ("Mummy, you do love me more than X, don't you?!"), and so on. How will that make not only your younger daughter feel... but also you and your husband? As her parents, it is your job to protect your children, and your husband is trying to do that.

As a previous poster said, NPD is something that can be passed down through the generations. It can also skip them, too. My mother has undiagnosed tendancies towards narcissism/narcissistic behaviour, whilst my daughter... her eldest granddaughter and my eldest child... actually has a clinical diagnosis of this disorder. My younger child feels as though his grandmother hates him. Because she favours my daughter, over him, and always has done. It has caused a huge divide in my family, and to be honest, I wouldn't wish having a NPD child on anyone, especially if you don't have a personality disorder yourself (like me).

Please back your husband up on this one. For the sake of your daughters, if not your own.

"I think you need to think really carefully about this, and maybe talk to friends, or people who know your DM or have experienced her, other than dh, who also sounds a bit childish".

Friends can be over invested and many people really do not get the whole toxic families thing at all, let alone ones in which narcissism features. Many people really do not want to believe that this can actually happen within families also because it does not thankfully happen within theirs.

OP - it may well be worth your while now trying to find a therapist and preferably one who has experience in dealing with narcissism. Finding such a person and one at that who has no bias about keeping families together could help you re your own self and your family unit too.

gubbins,

re your comment:-
"My grandmothers didn't have a favourite grandchild, but they did have a least favourite. Me! My grandfathers both loved me and my parents were scrupulously equitable, so it was something we joked about"

that is rotten Gubbins. You were but a child and that was in no way your fault, the fault was your grandmothers and theirs alone. They were unlikeable people. Fortunately for you your parents and grandfathers were great people who between them negated the emotional harm. Unfortunately OP has not been so lucky with regards to herself and her children.

OP, as soon as you say the word 'narc', you know the answer will be go NC. She doesn't really sound that narc to me, just a bit arrogant and unselfcontrolled (as does dh a bit too). They clearly have a bit of a personality clash. I am a bit like this with my BIL as we are similar and therefore clash. He's pretty selfish and I'm confrontational. My dsis is much more of a peacemaker, although she has ways of making herself heard which are a bit less aggressive than me.

I think you need to think really carefully about this, and maybe talk to friends, or people who know your DM or have experienced her, other than dh, who also sounds a bit childish.

OP, she's your mother. You husband obviously should support you, but it's your relationship, not his.

And self-protection is not selfishness. You can't expect others to be martyrs just because you place yourself in that position.

It's not easy to walk away and I don't personally think you have to. I don't think you are niave about your mother's failings. I don't think that one grandparent who favours one child over another has much of a bearing on children with grounded parents who keep things even.

I think you you are doing fine. If you think you can negotiate a reasonable relationship with a tricky mother, knowing when to wash in and out of her life to minimise damage but maintain a compromised bond, then I'm sure you know better than strangers.

I'm really not getting it. You know her best, so if you think she has narcissistic tendencies then I'm sure you're right, but a lot of other posters seem to be projecting their own relationships and trying to persuade you that it's a lot worse than the evidence you've given implies.

You've said nothing that suggests your mother 'scapegoats' your youngest; only that she gives your elder a bit more leeway (possibly precisely because you find her more challenging). If your husband wants to avoid her, that's his business, but from what you've said (she's supportive, a good listener) I don't know why you'd consider going nc or cutting her off from her grandchildren.

My grandmothers didn't have a favourite grandchild, but they did have a least favourite. Me! My grandfathers both loved me and my parents were scrupulously equitable, so it was something we joked about. Its not affected me in the slightest and I look back fondly on my battles of wills with the mad old bats.

You said you are a team. Well he needs to get on board with that because that's not how he's acting ATM.

Do you perhaps think that the OP hasn't let him/hasn't wanted him to stick up for her/stick up for himself before now though? For the sake of not rocking the boat?

Why have you tolerated any of this from your mother if you would not take it from a friend?. They are really no different.

I was not trying to be dismissive of you at all. You are very much an adult child of a narcissist and are still trying to figure things out.

I am not surprised you have anger issues; that really comes from how your mother has treated you and in turn now your own family unit. Many adult children of narcissists still cling onto the forlorn hope that their parents will behave better with the grandchildren this time around; it does not happen. Your parents have really not fundamentally altered since childhood.

All this anyway can leave people very angry and mired in FOG - fear, obligation and guilt. Reading up on FOG as well as adopting the grey rock technique with your mother may well help you as well.

Ultimately you will need to grieve for the relationship with your mother that you should have had rather than the one you actually got. It is really not possible to have a relationship with a narcissist. Do not let the fact that you only have one mother cloud your judgment here further; she has not been a good parent to you and is a poor example of a grandparent to your DC. At the very least now, your H and you are going to have to present a united front re your parents.

I agree with Nelly, your dh is actually part of the problem as he's just hiding. That's spineless and putting more pressure on you. You said you are a team. Well he needs to get on board with that because that's not how he's acting ATM.

I'm your DH. I put up with 20 years of my IL's being narcissitic and difficult and a bit shit to me. More than a bit. Then their DGC came along and they openly favour their DD's children. DH never dealt with any of it. Ever. Just staying 'you know what they're like' is not enough and I eventually had enough. I now see them as little as possible. I sucked it up but actually I shouldn't have had to. Neither should your DH. They see my DC because I'm not going to stop them but they'll have to deal with the fallout of the favouritism as my DC already realise and don't really want to see them.

My MIL sounds exactly like your DM. I have been NC with her for 18 months now, its bliss. Dh don;t have nay dc together though.

my dh sees her about once every 6-8 weeks, which has drastically reduced from what is was after he had therapy due to her narc behaviours. he would go nc ideally, but he doesn't want to cause any drama (and wants his inheritance).

My dh has respected my wish to go nc, although he hasn't directly told his dm thats what i'm doing. He just makes excuses for me as to why i'm not with him when he meets up with them / visits. I think they have taken the hint. Obviously if i had to see them at some kind of event etc then I would go and be polite.

You don't have to walk away, you know. You believe there are many positives with having your mother in your life. It is about managing her. And possibly periods of low contact or no contact for a certain amount of time. It's about knowing you can walk away and go back again. That you have power. Not just your mother as she doesn't get to call the shots with your family.

If your dh doesn't want to see her that's his choice and his right however he should have the balls to say that to her, not hide behind u to do it. I also think a compromise on the children contact should be made as they are also his children so maybe limit it to once a week (if currently it's more than that) or once a fortnight.

Thank you Stuckbetween. I'm also going to try grey rock. Thanks to those, who suggested it.