To be utterly disgusted and depressed that women think its ok to make small penis gags?

You might well have found it patronising, even though you knew well that I did not mean it that way

You can't stop yourself can you ? Still telling me what is in my head.

I thought and still think your comment was patronising, snide, condescending and most of all , hypocritical. You used a term which if used by a man would have been jumped on and now are posting post after post claiming you know better.

You might well have found it patronising, even though you knew well that I did not mean it that way. You then used it to conflate a proposition that I was some kind of MRA type character

And Lass, your false indignation of the DFOD is a nonsense. It is used all the time on MN

Will you stop telling me what is in my mind?.

I don't care how often it is used. I don't tell people either on here or in real life to fuck off. I don't actually like that expression and I think it is utter hypocrisy to appropriate an expression (dear) which Cameron used and was vilified for and use it with reference to other women.

I found your DFOD patronising and snide and your iteration of what I am thinking compounds it. There is no false indignation.

Equally I do not particularly value the opinions of feminists who think "handmaiden" is a brilliant , winning argument to any view point they disagree with

Actually I don't think that at all, but I'm fucked if I'm going to be bullied into not using it, because some people say so. This thread has become all about that word and your attempts to discredit me personally with your charges of misogamy for using it certainly does not convince either

However, the term 'handmaiden' has caused so much upset because, I suppose, it's a short-hand way of saying 'You're not a feminist". But surely if you're arguing a non-feminist view, you would already know you're not a feminist... Hell, some posters even state 'I'm not a feminist' - and then get all upset if they suspect someone's called them a handmaiden. Odd

Not odd as far as I am concerned. I don't say I am feminist. I don't particularly care whether someone says they are or not. I am far more interested in what people actually say or do.

I do not agree with or value the opinion of feminists who are pro the sex industry. There are plenty of women who call themselves feminists and who would label me as a SWERF.

On a personal level I did not change my name and I find it very difficult to see how anyone who calls themselves a feminist but who did so reconciles doing so

Equally I do not particularly value the opinions of feminists who think "handmaiden" is a brilliant , winning argument to any view point they disagree with.

And Lass, your false indignation of the DFOD is a nonsense. It is used all the time on MN, and I used it deliberately and specifically in the context of this thread, as well you know. I didn't use it then claim it was a joke. If you didn't see any humour in it, fine, but you have attempted to liken me to some of MRA in your wilful misunderstanding and misrepresentation of my use of that term. If that's the kind of nonsense you need to peddle to 'win', fair enough, but it holds no water. And to be honest, your arguments are usually better than this

" lazy, misogynistic insult"
Actually it isn't, it's a highly useful term born from a respected novel. But you are free to push that line if it suits your agenda

I understood you to say that the expression "handmaiden" should never be used. Were you only referring to this thread? Apologies if you were

No. I meant generally. It gets thrown out as if it were a trump card, the definitive word. And it isn't- it's a lazy argument designed to end discussion and put people in their place. That is what Mercy is doing. She asserts there were a lot of handmaidens on this thread but becomes all coy as it's obvious, (innit)

But I don't remember excusing anything as a joke...? What do you mean?

Apologies, it was Mercy who told me to "do fuck off dear" and then claimed it was a joke. I got you mixed up with Mercy because of your (unwarranted) comment around the same time about "looking forward to seeing me on posts defending women." As I said, I think you will find plenty of posts where my views are pretty much in line with those of radical feminists on some issues.

I notice that nobody has addressed the question of whether people think feminists have to agree with other women whatever they say

Of course not. Who has said they should? Women who say they are feminists don't even agree with other women who say they are feminists. That is not what the point of my objection to "handmaiden" is.

I sometimes got the impression that some feminists think all women should agree with them or they arnt the right type of feminist/not feminist and its then ok to use the turn handmaiden or such at them.

I genuinely hope this isn't the case - and I don't think it is...

If a feminist disagrees with another woman, and she says that she disagrees, that's surely fine? I've rarely heard a woman say "Well, you're not the right sort of feminist because you said that" - usually it's a more direct engagement with the content of the point. If woman B then wants to infer that woman A is saying she's not a feminist, well...if the cap fits and all that...

However, the term 'handmaiden' has caused so much upset because, I suppose, it's a short-hand way of saying 'You're not a feminist". But surely if you're arguing a non-feminist view, you would already know you're not a feminist... Hell, some posters even state 'I'm not a feminist' - and then get all upset if they suspect someone's called them a handmaiden. Odd.

At the risk of sounding extremely simplistic, I'd say you can either be a feminist or a non-feminist (which would make you a... no, I'm not going to say it). But I don't see much of a grey area; either you're fighting to install equality, or you're accepting male privilege. I realise that in real life, things can get a bit hazy - but on here, it's usually a debate about principles and ideas. Perhaps I'm a very extreme radfem (but I don't think so...) - but I rarely find myself angrily disagreeing with other feminists. I might on occasion think the odd feminist has taken things too far, but I can sympathise and see where they're coming from.

I think if you regularly find yourself in conflict with feminists on MN, and feel that they're trying to tell you you're 'the wrong kind of feminist', well, you may want to look very closely at your feminist credentials.

Lass I've been out of the thread for a while, but I've just noticed this:

Merchant claiming it was a joke is exactly the same as saying " can't you take a joke luv?" Banter and all that.

Up to you and Merchant whether you want to see that or not.

But I don't remember excusing anything as a joke...? What do you mean?

It would be interesting to see what Margaret Atwood would have to say about women wanting the term 'handmaiden' banned

I understood you to say that the expression "handmaiden" should never be used. Were you only referring to this thread? Apologies if you were.

"Nor is it ok to use expressions such as ' "handmaiden'"

Not even if somebody is being one?

I notice that nobody has addressed the question of whether people think feminists have to agree with other women whatever they say.

Tell you what, I'll tag you the next time I use it, that way we can continue all the thread fun we have had today

It's perfectly clear who they were. It's the handmaiden comment that so riled you. And we keep going back and forth. I get that you really dislike that term. But if you think you are going to force me into submission or something and taking it back, no I won't.

Ah right, I see what you are on about now. Why should I name and shame? You can read the thread as well as I can. Sorry you are sticking to the same line there Lass that I am telling you what you think. It's rather weak

Well if you read the thread you will see I did post I agreed with the OP. I am not sure however why I am precluded from commenting on the offensive term "handmaiden" . You are the one who is intent on telling me what my motives are. To be clear, the OP has a valid point and I find handmaiden offensive. It is possible to contain 2 thoughts at the same time.

And what a cop out- you throw out that insult but don't even have the courage of your convictions to say who you were referring to.