To be utterly disgusted and depressed that women think its ok to make small penis gags?

I didn't say "the thread title is" ... I said "this thread is about"

Fuck me - touchy touchy about handmaiden. OP was not primarily concerned about her son having a small penis, The title OP is that she was 'disgusted and depressed' that such term could ever be used, And the reaction was yes, it was disgusting and depressing. NO account of what women frequently have to endure or indeed why the term was used in another post.

As Merchant said "Some women just cannot wait to defend men to sort of prove a point. And the same women won't stand up for their own sex in many cases."

As for being mysognistic, DFOD

Lass I think it's, of course, acceptable to call out anyone when they are wrong/offensive/misguided.

What some of us have a problem with is the types (let's call them a nice, neutral term that is unlikely to upset anyone - how about 'handmaidens' ) who ONLY call out women. They let all the usual sexist bullshit fly straight under the radar, or, better still, they will argue black is white rather than let a feminist point stand unchallenged.

Then, they spot an instance where (fair cop) there's some unfair behaviour from women towards men, and in they pile, all falling over themselves to call out the women, triumphant and gleeful.

Now, I don't think the OP intended to, but she has attracted some of those people.

What I'd like to know is whether people think that in order to be a feminist you have to agree with all other women, and never call them out when you think they are wrong or misinformed

What I'd like to know is whether people think that as women you have to agree with women who call themselves feminists , and never call them out when you think they are wrong or misinformed ?

The "handmaiden" , "cool girl" and their back up gotcha of "straw man" frequently get played as the trump card whether justified or not and they are misogynistic.

To be accepted as a feminist on Mumsnet and to be welcome in the feminist sub board you have to be a particular type of feminist who agrees with all the other feminists on mumsnet and buys in to a particular world view.

But that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about a woman who is upset that her son's physical attribute of small penis is used as an insult by other mother's and is excused on the grounds of women have it worse.

"its you've pretty much said how i feel about handmaiden and cool wives.
Though maybe i've simply been brainwashed by menz hmm"

Would you like to discuss it further? I'm guessing by the "menz" thing that the answer's no, but worth a try.

What I'd like to know is whether people think that in order to be a feminist you have to agree with all other women, and never call them out when you think they are wrong or misinformed.

its you've pretty much said how i feel about handmaiden and cool wives.
Though maybe i've simply been brainwashed by menz

"Can you possibly not be snarky, itsmine? I was being genuine"

I don't think she can help it. In the same way I don't think she can help not actually engaging with what people say. As my ds would say "It's a condition, mate"

Its called getting a taste of their own medicine. Its not nice, is it.

Eh, but its not them getting a taste of their own medicine, is it?
You say to a man with a medium or large penis that he's got a small dick, you think its going to hurt them, really? How?

Can you possibly not be snarky, itsmine? I was being genuine. There are posters who shout down and trivialise all sexism against women. You will know if you've ever done this. No need to try to be all clever and smug about it.

Yes it may not be right, but. Men hit women where it hurts, don't they.
Its called getting a taste of their own medicine. Its not nice, is it.

Itsmine.

Any thread where a man is not happy with a woman wanting to keep her name on marriage.
Any thread discussing whether or not women's behaviour "contributes" to them being raped.
Any thread about body hair.
Any thread about domestic violence (in general- not when a specific woman asks for support)
Any thread about division of domestic tasks.
Any thread about sexual stereotyping in children's clothes, books or toys.

Don't some women have penises too nowadays?
It's all become so confusing.

"This bit there are women who excuse and justify men's behaviour, however appalling. Who always put men's needs and wants first and who always seek to blame the woman in any given situation is fine as an explanation of the term, but I didn't see anyone on the thread doing that before the term was used. Am I just particularly stupid or something? Why is it wrong to want to see a situation from both sides? Why are we not "allowed" to do that without being shouted down?"

Hmm. It's interesting in relation to this particular thread- and the poster who used it should probably be explaining . But my perception is that the only people being "shouted down" were the people saying things like "Yes, body shaming is wrong, but it is really an issue which affects women so much more than men. And I wish people were putting as much energy in the practically universal body shaming of women as they are into this specific situation which affects men" Which seems to me to be a perfectly legitimate standpoint, but which on this thread seemed to be taken to mean that you didn't care what happened to men. Does that make sense?

itsmine I'm not going to link, no (actually don't know how to on my phone) - but I'll leave it to your conscience... You'll know if you've ever been guilty of trivialising women's complaints about sexism, as will others...

Got your point about 'handmaiden' being misogynistic. Yes, I can see how you could argue that. I don't really agree, but see that I was being a bit obtuse there.

I'm now going to use an analogy to try to illustrate why some of us found this thread problematic... because analogies always go down well.

Imagine you see a lot of racism against people of colour. You see it all the time, everywhere (not that hard to imagine, is it...). When you try to address it on MN, there is always a little pocket of posters who shout you down, who trivialise it and clearly don't feel the need to attack racism.

Then a thread comes along when someone's been abused based on the whiteness of their skin. It's abuse; it's not nice. And when people acknowledge this the nastiness they are essentially right. But when the infamous posters, the ones who habitually excuse the rampant and constant racism that flows the other way, come along, it's a bit hard to take. They seem to be all... triumphant. All 'ha- told you' and it leaves a nasty taste behind.

We all recognise names of posters who hate feminism. It wasn't a big surprise to hear them banging the drum on this thread.

"Bertrand the term is misogynistic because it is meant to shut women up who don't agree with what the person who used the term is saying"

I don't agree, actually. It is intended to describe women who behave in very specific ways.

Do you think that feminists should agree with everything any other woman says?

Fair enough. I promise never to say anything about a man's penis size ever again. And I will call out anyone I hear doing it.

Perfect. That is the optimum outcome hoped for by the op. And of course many of us will do the same when we hear insults regarding women's bodies in general.

I've gone back and read your 7.36 post Betrand.

This bit there are women who excuse and justify men's behaviour, however appalling. Who always put men's needs and wants first and who always seek to blame the woman in any given situation is fine as an explanation of the term, but I didn't see anyone on the thread doing that before the term was used. Am I just particularly stupid or something? Why is it wrong to want to see a situation from both sides? Why are we not "allowed" to do that without being shouted down?

"Using absolutist statements and hyperbole is not the way to get people to listen to what you are saying. Every woman is not abused all the time."

No, every individual woman is not abused all the time. But women in general are. Women in public life are bombarded with sexual abuse, for example.

itsmine you posted a lot while I was writing mine. I agree with everything you've said.

Bertrand the term is misogynistic because it is meant to shut women up who don't agree with what the person who used the term is saying. I am emphatically not a handmaiden (as it was defined upthread). I have never thought "poor menz". I will challenge double standards, and I refuse to be told that I'm not the "right" sort of feminist for doing so. Feminists are supposed to stand up for women, not put them down. Reducing them to "handmaidens" for daring to voice an opinion is misogynistic in the extreme.

"Giving those of us who aren't hardcore radfems a cutesy little name won't make us go away. It will just make us think that if you are reduced to insulting us, then you probably don't have anything very interesting to say anyway."

I honestly think you might have misunderstood the explanation of the term. Can I ask you to read them again? If that's what you got from my post of 7.36 this morning, then I have expressed myself badly, and I'll try again.

But itsmine it is interesting that on threads where people are desperately trying to point out that certain behaviour towards women is unacceptable, you get many of the same posters who've been very keen to defend men on this thread saying "oh be quiet, that's not offensive" etc. It is a problem - the need that some people have to vocally defend men and try trivialise women's complaints.

That's why this thread has been controversial. We all know body shaming is wrong, but some of us are alarmed at certain well-known posters, who never lift a finger to defend women, getting sooo invested when a penis is at stake.