To be utterly disgusted and depressed that women think its ok to make small penis gags?

Nope I couldn't be misogynist Lass

None as blind...but do crack on.

I'm so sorry, Worra Could you link some instances where you've been all 'guns blazing' for the women?

But, actually, you've slightly misread my point. I'm very much not saying "don't listen to them" - because, as Bertrand has patiently pointed out, we all seem to agree about the actual behaviour ( i.e. It's wrong to body shame). It's a separate point, that it's a bit depressing to see who has turned out to defend men. And it's highly relevant to this thread because it happened on this thread!

User- I think that the OP should probably start another thread making it clear that she is talking specifically about her son, not generally about body shaming. Because her OP did not m nation this at all.

Nope I couldn't be misogynist Lass

I expect you will think otherwise as that suits you better. Crack on

Because I think you might know what I mean when I mention posters who basically couldn't give a shit about defending women, but get ever so excited if there's a chance to defend men

If the "never defends women" comment is meant to include you Worra (or me for that matter) then it is utter crap.

Bertrand you raise an interesting point about perception.

My perception of this thread is that those who were saying "body shaming is always wrong" were being shouted down by those saying "yes it's wrong but women get it worse".

Your perception is

But my perception is that the only people being "shouted down" were the people saying things like "Yes, body shaming is wrong, but it is really an issue which affects women so much more than men. And I wish people were putting as much energy in the practically universal body shaming of women as they are into this specific situation which affects men"

Perhaps we shall all just have to agree to disagree? Because this thread, to me, is about a mother who is upset that her son's physical condition is used as an insult. And we all agree that is wrong.

My opinion is that this is not the thread to debate the wider societal issues, when it's a personal thread that has the potential to cause so much hurt and upset to the mother of a son with a physical condition that is used to body shame. It's really too personal for that. We are, after all, supposed to make parents lives better and be supportive on here.

Perhaps you should start a more general thread?

My first post to Lass disappeared - it was that I used DFOD intentionally

I'm sure you did. That was rather my point. Usually a person calling a woman "dear" is liable to be called "misogynistic" (recent thread on FWR about an article in the Huffington Post makes that point).

I expect of course your use was ironic or similar because as a declared feminist you could not possibly be misogynstic no matter how patronising.

Because I think you might know what I mean when I mention posters who basically couldn't give a shit about defending women, but get ever so excited if there's a chance to defend men.

See that's another 'point' that has been made more than once on this thread.

But I see it as a 'point' made from people who actually don't want to believe that those who stand up for men here, actually do stand up for women too.

Rather than see that those women are often pointing out the sexism/hypocrisy they read from some posters, they'll just convince themselves that they never ever stick up for women, only men.

Just another way of dismissing a viewpoint that one doesn't agree with.

"Oh don't listen to them, they always stick up for men. They never stick up for women. They get 'excited' if there's a chance to defend men".

It would also be a bit good if anti feminists stopped using "but this happens to men too" on any thread about, for example, domestic violence............

My first post to Lass disappeared - it was that I used DFOD intentionally.

Worra- what do you want people to say?

Worra

There can be a 'but' though.

How about this:

We all agree body-shaming is wrong, but some of us feel that this thread has raised other issues too.

Is that ok? Are we allowed to discuss the 'other issues arising'?

Because I think you might know what I mean when I mention posters who basically couldn't give a shit about defending women, but get ever so excited if there's a chance to defend men.

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I think that, unless you want to be called a handmaiden, you should have to fight the women's corner at least as often as you fight the men's when it comes to sexist bullshit.

I mean, if this is your first thread ever, and you come to it cold, then I guess it's fine to just take it at face value and say, simply, yep - all body-shaming is wrong. But if you're a famous anti-feminist... well, that's where the other issues arise.

And I don't believe I have actually used the term handmaiden before, so not 'trotting' it out. I can see that you don't like the term, and this thread has become about the use of that word, rather than the prevalence of men being called microdicks.

I joined the discussion yesterday Bert as you know.

And having caught up on it just now, I can see it's dead in the water.

It's like a stuck record "Body shaming is wrong but women have it worse".

"Yes but body shaming is still wrong"

What other 'discussion' is there to be had?

"If you can't see that trotting out "handmaiden" at any opportunity is misogynistic maybe, to use another phrase which appears regularly on FWR, you are a little "hard of thinking"?"

Forget the actual expression "handmaiden" for a minute. Do you think that there are women who fit the definition?

"There's no excuse for it at all, and I'm cringing here for the posters who are still trying to justify it, whilst also saying it's wrong."

How about ignoring those posters and joining in the discussion?

As for being mysognistic, DFOD

That acronym I assumes means "do fuck off dear". Odd you would use the phrase "dear" , which is usually taken to be misogynstic and patronising , to deny another phrase is misogynistic.

If you can't see that trotting out "handmaiden" at any opportunity is misogynistic maybe, to use another phrase which appears regularly on FWR, you are a little "hard of thinking"?

Nearly 300 posts and still this thread doesn't seem to have moved past, "Yes body shaming is wrong but "

There is no but I'm afraid.

There's no excuse for it at all, and I'm cringing here for the posters who are still trying to justify it, whilst also saying it's wrong.

"I am not saying women don't get body shaming comments, but I am saying that he gets them too. And both are wrong."

Yes, I think everyone agrees with that.

"The sort that post on the feminist board on Mumsnet Bertrand, I thought that was clear"

But lots of different sorts of people post on the feminist boards. For example, Lass, who's posting on this thread definitely doesn't call herself a feminist and posts on the feminist boards, particularly about porn and prostitution.

My friend is body shamed, often. I've been out with him and I have noticed it more than I've ever noticed anything aimed at me.

I may be just old so not the target of comments any longer, but I genuinely notice my short friend getting horrid comments when we are out. Those comments are aimed at his small stature (won't matter when you're on your knees being one), digs about the size of his feet (checking what size his feet are as small feet means small dick) and lots of digs about small man big temper.

I am not saying women don't get body shaming comments, but I am saying that he gets them too. And both are wrong.

Yes I missed it too Bert and had to back to find that bit.

Oh and btw I have two sons and I am not in fear of them being called microdick by all and sundry, because it is not a common occurrence for women to do this. A thread on a women's board is hardly pervasive. But women are frequently insulted, body shamed, in person and in popular culture.

The sort that post on the feminist board on Mumsnet Bertrand, I thought that was clear.

"To be accepted as a feminist on Mumsnet and to be welcome in the feminist sub board you have to be a particular type of feminist who agrees with all the other feminists on mumsnet and buys in to a particular world view"

Really? What type of feminist do you mean?

"But that's not what this thread is about. This thread is about a woman who is upset that her son's physical attribute of small penis is used as an insult by other mother's and is excused on the grounds of women have it worse."

Fair enough but thought we had all agreed that it shouldn't be, and we're moving on. (However, I do think it's worth saying that the OP's original post was a general/political one, and she did not mention her son til wellmon in the thread, and I missed it until someone else pointed it out-the thread would have gone a very different way if it had been personal from the beginning)