Girls told to wear longer skirts at school because the boys are distracted and male teachers feel uncomfortable.

So a 15 year old boy seeing a 15 year old girls knickers peeking out from under her skirt will inevitably find that arrousing.

Sure, but that's not the girl's problem. The boy is going to find himself attracted to women in his lifetime and have to control himself and make himself responsible for his own urges and feelings.

I just can't stand this. Every time this sort of subject comes up, some knuckledragging mouth breather feels a need to remind us that men are naturally attracted to women. As if we need to be reminded of what men want and like. Because this isn't reinforced to us eleventy thousand times every single fucking day on every single fucking medium. We know what men want. We never fucking stop hearing about it.

But what we don't get is an equal message that men are responsible for dealing with themselves if they can't get what they immediately want, and that it's not women's problem or responsibility to make sure they never see anything they want and can't have.

But it's circular. Because as soon as someone says "Yes, men are like that and that's why it's their responsibility to control themselves", the baboons just come back with "BUT MEN'S PENISES. IT'S ALL ABOUT MEN'S PENISES. YOU MUST LISTEN TO ME TELL YOU MORE ABOUT MEN'S PENISES. YOU ARE OPPRESSING MY PENIS. I AM ALLOWED TO BE ATTRACTED TO WOMEN AND CONSTANTLY TELL YOU ABOUT IT. MY PENIS. MY PENIS. DID WE TALK YET ABOUT MY PENIS?"

It's just so fucking tedious. And later on, it becomes dangerous.

Well said SeekEverything

Trifle No-one has said girls do not need to be dressed appropriately for school. Quite the opposite. They are simply saying that girls should not be made responsible for male reactions. It's part of the woeful philosophy that male sexual response can't be controlled and it is women's responsibility not to arouse them.

Trifle - Well I assume they have to be visible in order for all the 'accusations' to start, don't they ? If we're talking about something nobody is going to know about, then where's the issue? Apart from the obvious issue that the man gets erections over his pupils, of course?

Seek - at my DC's school skirts are supposed to be knee length too. Most of them wear them just above tbh. But that's very different to the rolling up of the skirts to as far as you think you'll get away with it.

SeekEveryEveryKnownHidingPlace:

I don't think we need to be talking about 'huge and visible erections' - taking hyperbole a bit far?

But men DO get erections, they are not voluntary, and it is sensible to have a conservative uniform policy so that no-one finds themselves in an uncomfortable situation. It's not about it being anyone's fault.

NancyWake:

I am not going to engage with the 'concerning' comments or the 'who do you know' comments. This is an entirely hypothetical discussion. I am perfectly within my rights to say what I have said. Do sod off with your horrible insinuations.

I honestly believe someone needs to put across the unfairness of people expecting girls to be able to walk around schools wearing less than they might wear to a foam party

If I see anyone expecting that, I'll certainly put across the unfairness of it.

I disagree. That's exactly what I said elisaveta. You obviously think boys should not be physically attracted to girls who areblatently trying to attract them.

No it isn't porpoise. What you actually said was this:

'Because it is a law of nature that boys/men find womens bodies physically attractive. Women also towards men but to a much lesser extent.'

That means something more than 'men find women's bodies physically attractive' because you also threw in a comparison to what women think of men's bodies. That you said this isn't a matter of opinion, and nor is what it means. The words you used have a meaning, and if you're saying it's actually something different, you're wrong.

This is not actually an issue for disagreement: the people who are telling you that you said more than men are attracted to women's bodies are right. You did.

You also need to stop making things up about what other people think.

To be honest, I think the whole thing about this male teacher who gets a huge and visible erection on suddenly seeing a year 11's crotch, then gets fired and his life is over, is all just a bit silly and straw-menz, really.

NancyWake:

I don't disagree that this should not be something a male teacher expects to happen to him. At all. But I do believe it could happen, to someone, with an older student without that someone being a pervert. And I think you are being both harsh on them and rude to me tbh. I am trying to articulate a difficult position with care because I honestly believe someone needs to put across the unfairness of people expecting girls to be able to walk around schools wearing less than they might wear to a foam party, but for male teachers to not notice, ever, at all, and to be fired if they do. I won't apologise for trying to be fair.

That's setting the girls up for lifetime of policing their behaviour, while grown men just can't help, ogling, commenting, groping, raping. However, I do think school uniforms should be the same for all, i.e. white shirt, school jumper, grey trousers, black shoes

It's concerning to me that you appear to work in a school Trifle and I hope you're not passing on this nonsense to your pupils.

I can't honestly blame a male teacher who is caught off guard once in his career and loses his job as a result

Caught off guard in what way? Who do you know who was 'caught off guard' only once and lost his job as a result?

It is not 'exactly what you said'! You said it was the case and it was a 'law of nature' which applies much less to women!

Trifle

As I have already said, it's not unexpected in a school to get a flash of underwear. Girls will walk through the school in games skirts, you can get a flash of knickers from that. Boys will walk around in football kit.
They might get changed in a classroom because they're late. They may get changed for after school activities, for drama etc. On a school trip children may change their clothes if they get hot, or they get soaking wet, swap with others etc.

A teacher has to expect that it may happen, not just in a changing room. And should be able to cope with it. A teacher should not be, what you inarticulately describe as:

"seeing something and applying the usual connotations of sexuality to it that he might do perfectly reasonably outside the classroom (for example, in a music video where no-one would question him finding an 18 year old dancer in her underwear sexually arousing)"

If he is applying sexuality to the classroom, he needs to leave.

I disagree. That's exactly what I said elisaveta. You obviously think boys should not be physically attracted to girls who areblatently trying to attract them.

LaSegunda

At my daughter's school, skirts are supposed to reach the knee.

I very rarely wear skirts that reach my knees.

I like the way my clothes look.

Is the reason I do that in order to 'provoke'?

You must be right. Men don't find women's bodies physically attractive . How stupid of me to think that.

You did say a wee bit more than that porpoise, in fairness...

ElisavetaFartsonira:

As you were, then.

I used to work in a school uniform shop. I remember loads of teenage girls - 13, 14, 15 year olds begging their parents to let them buy grey pleated skirts that were for ages 6-7/ 7-8. They would buy the ones with elasticated waists.

porpoise

? That's not what I said.

If it wasn't provocative, the girls wouldn't bother doing it would they - unconsciously or otherwise?

What the fuck?

OK. But I'm going to continue to point out if you say things that are wrong trifle. Obviously you can either engage with that or not.

NancyWake:

I don't think I need to have a word with myself at all. I know I would always behave 100% professionally in any of these circumstances. But I can't blame people (even men) for feeling as I know many people feel (associating female nudity with sex), when their conduct itself is impeccable, and they have done everything to avoid the situation. I would always report it, because I know that is my job, but I can't honestly blame a male teacher who is caught off guard once in his career and loses his job as a result. The policy on uniform (and staff clothing) in a secondary school is there to avoid such incidents.