Girls told to wear longer skirts at school because the boys are distracted and male teachers feel uncomfortable.

This again.

Look. Teenage boys are teenage boys. They are full of hormones and are absolutely going to notice a girl's legs and bum if her skirt is too short. No, they should never ever comment and they should never ever upskirt or make that girl feel uncomfortable in any way BUT the fact remains that girls wear their school skirts far too short and that that will make some boys feel uncomfortable or distracted. Those boys are absolutely never entitled to act on those feelings but it's their school environment too and they have the same right to attend and not be made to feel uncomfortable by the poking out butt cheeks (yes, I've seen this as a teacher!) of a teenage girl. It's simply not appropriate in a school context. Saying boys must be responsible for their feelings does not give girls free reign to dress in a way which contravenes school uniform policies and crosses lines in terms of what's appropriate in that particular context.

Male teachers don't generally sexualise 15yo FFS. Obviously there are bad eggs and they need to be weeded out and removed from school environments forever. However, male teachers are required to uphold the school uniform policy for all pupils. That includes telling a girl when her skirt is not the required length. You can imagine what that means for that male teacher, who will be subject to loud comments such as "your shouldn't be looking Sir! Omg, Sir was looking at Keira's skirt Miss! Paedo!" The male teacher isn't deliberately looking at Keira's skirt - her skirt is so short that you can't miss it, no matter who you are. If a female lesbian teacher comments on Keira's skirt and tells her she must change it for an appropriate one, is she sexualising Keira? What about a female straight teacher? That is what is meant by making male teachers uncomfortable! Teaching in a classroom full of 15yo Keiras with tiny skirts can leave some male teachers feeling constantly on edge about where they're inadvertently looking, how they can help a pupil in a small classroom with desks close together etc etc and NOT because they might feel sexually aroused by these teenage girls but because these teenage girls don't hesitate to attempt to embarrass or worse accuse male staff of sexualising them.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not at all ever suggesting that sexualising a 15yo is ok. I hope I've made that clear. I know that there are instances of male pupils committing sexual assault in schools and that is never, ever, ever acceptable, no matter how short the skirt, no matter what. It also isn't ever the girl's fault if she is on the receiving end of such behaviour. However, it isn't some black and white thing whereby everyone in a school in possession of a penis must automatically be assumed to be sexualising girls and feel uncomfortable because they are sexualising girls!

Wearing a short skirt, showing cleavage, wearing a thong bikini are all acts designed to invite someone to look and admire. Girls need to learn that their self worth and value is not aligned to what they wear and what attention/sexual attraction they get.
If a young man is presented with a sexual image his body will respond. That’s biology. It’s not a reflection on him.
so yes girls should cover up at school and should learn their pretty bum does not define them.

My DC high school has recently changed uniform (different skirts) to prevent girls wearing 'tube' type skirts and rolling them up.

My DS16 told me he welcomed this uniform change. He said he felt embarrassed walking up the stairs behind girls whose bottoms and knickers were showing as it made him feel very uncomfortable, always having to keep eyes and head down.

My DD mentioned she'd seen girls with short skirts, & thin tights with sanitary pads on show (climbing over benches to sit down in canteen or going up steps to school bus)

I do think as a whole the girls look much neater and this uniform change has put an end to the 'short skirt' culture.

Of course the reason is because it makes other people feel uncomfortable. What did you expect it to be? If a male teacher gets caught accidentally looking at your daughter's legs he'll get in the shit for it, won't he? There's no good reason for girls to be wearing short skirts at school, and YES, the girls should have to modify their behaviour because they're at bloody school. It's supposed to be a mutually respectful learning environment.

Do you really imagine that if the male teachers / pupils turned up in cycling shorts or a vest top, for example, they wouldn't be asked to wear something more appropriate?

Twenty four fucking pages debating this. Imagine actually taking the time to write to the school to moan about it.
YABU.

'I would agree that it is not a sexual thing to feel uncomfortable.'

You're right. At my gym most of the women walk around nude in the changing rooms. I don't like it - it does make me uncomfortable. Does that mean I'm attracted to women? Clearly not.

I think a lot of parents like them, for traditional reasons.

There is also a lot of hysteria regarding them in both sides, they aren't the massive levellers they are thought to be, nor are they the worst thing ever.

In terms of a high school without uniform, girls with bum skimming, crotch showing skirts would still be told to wear something more appropriate.

I'm in London, and I know that Fortismere have a very clear dress code which refers to: visible bikins or bras, short shorts, midriff showing tops, cleavage, hoods up, pants showing above waistband and lots of others.

I don't mind uniforms but what I'm not a fan of and what never happened when I was at school is children not having the freedom to take jumpers/blazers off when they feel the need to and having to get permission. My teachers at secondary school would never have dreamed of telling us when to take our jumper on or off.

I don't like shirts, ties or blazers, personally. I'm a fan of trousers, polo shirts and sweatshirts or hoodies, for both sexes. Similar to what many retail workers wear. Comfortable, practical, and can't really be 'customised'.
My son went to college instead of sixth form and from what I could see everyone seemed to wear normal clothes - jeans, tshirts, etc.

Then get parents to back it, then you'll get what you want!

If a majority of parents back it then it will happen, until then its just like asking the sea to turn back.

Wish we were near those schools...would love a non unifom school.

Shirts and ties on 4 yr old here.. madness...

Fortismere has never had a uniform ever, and is sought after not so much for how good the school is, but where the school is.

The other one I don't know about.

Two of the most sought after comps have no uniform though, Cherwell in Oxford and Fortismere in London.

There's also a cultural thing regarding it though isn't there. Of course there's the snob element too, but there are too many things involved with people wanting kids to wear uniform to say its the major influence.

Yeah well we all know photo of a kid in jeans and a t shirt by the front door doesn't say "look my kids off to the local grammar school/sought after comp" does it.

Gileswithachainsaw

We recently had a consultation with parents about uniform, the overwhelming response was to keep it.

the parents also voted for a summer uniform option (albeit a polo shirt instead of shirt and tie)

and voted against a blazer.

We went with the parents views. Whether it is snobbery or not it is what they wanted.

You also can't judge going by the odd mufti day. Novelty would soon wear off. And kids would just wear jeans and tops like everywhere else.

I have no idea why people tho k everyone would be turning I to blithering idiots stood by their wardrobe in a flap over what to wear. They manage it at weekends and holidays after all. It would be habit very quickly.

claraschu
as I said in my last post, schools may well have official dress codes, but these are never mentioned: never mentioned, as in not once, ever.

Yet they are there and they have been mentioned otherwise children wouldn't have been sent home from school or the prom for wearing inappropriate clothing.

Or maybe the children don't go against the rules
Or maybe the parents enforce the rules

I (and colleagues) have never worked in a school that doesn't have some sort of dress code. (for pupils and teachers)

I've said this in other threads danny

That I find it really hard to believe any of the arguments for uniform. Especially the "levelling" nonsense. Only an idiot would believe that spending best part if 400 quid (and yes they can and do cost that much in some places) on uniform which can only be worn at school and will need replacing the second it's lost or damaged whereas you could do without a t shirt or pair of jeans til you could afford a new pair, would level anything. It's just making people who don't have money spend out that money they don't have. They still have to buy clothes for home on top....

The true reason I believe is basic snobbery. People don't want to buy a nice house in a nice area to go to a good school only to look exactly like the kids from the school down the road which has the bad reputation .

There are dress codes in the states, you hear stories about kids being sent home from school all the time.

I agree that we shouldn't actually have uniform, but one of the biggest backers of uniform are PARENTS.

I agree that girls should be free to wear whatever they like, but likewise, male and female teachers shouldn't have to get an eyeful of pubescent gusset every time they raise their gaze.

Maybe the letter was worded badly, but there's a time and place for expressing yourself, and perhaps double maths isn't it.

BoneyBack as I said in my last post, schools may well have official dress codes, but these are never mentioned: never mentioned, as in not once, ever.

I and my nephews and niece and many many friends' kids went (and go) to school in the US and this is NOT an issue. No one mentions what kids are wearing. No one is aware of dress codes.

The same is true in much of Europe. Schools do not get involved in policing what kids wear.

Of course, I am sure that a google search would turn up the odd dress code regulation, or person being told not to wear a racist slogan or something. In general this is not an issue in many other countries.

Oh non uniform days are horrendous sometimes.

The school I am involved with used to have it on sports day as the kids would be more comfortable on the school field.

That all ended the year of the super short shorts, where a whole load of year 9 and 10 girls arrived with bum cheek on show and teeny tiny tops with acres of midriff and cleavage on show.

They wear PE kit on sports day now, and there is an appropriateness rule for non uniform.

We had a mufti day last week. My young assistant wouldn't leave my room, as he was feeling somewhat ill at ease with some of the female outfits. He may have had a point, in some cases. However, after 17 years, nothing surprises me.

There were a few "Christ on a bike" moments, and a few times I did have to avert my eyes, but... I'm an old fart, who am I to judge fashion.

He did ask me several times "how can you not react at all?". Simple answer, I've known them since they were new, I've known their siblings, I have children of my own, and quite honestly, I've seen far worse. My job is to keep them safe and do my job.

I got a few comments wearing my jeans, AC/DC T-shirt and leather waistcoat, including one about "not looking bad, for an old man"... Cheeky sods..

Emboo

One of my female colleagues was made uncomfortable by a teenage boys fully erect penis. It was inside his jogging pants but it was obvious.
She turned the tables skillfully and made light of the matter and talked about it with him (with a chaperone) after the lesson.

Was she unreasonable to feel uncomfortable? I can say with certainty she was in no way aroused by this experience.

"unhappy" not "ne happy"