Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

707 replies

Lemondrop09 · 26/02/2017 10:29

Perhaps AIBU is the wrong place to post this, as people can be very scathing. Please be honest but gentle with me!

Sorry this is so long.....

I rescued my dog over 7 years ago, when he was 8 months old. He'll be 8 years old in a few months time. He is a large cross breed (two guard breeds) and weighs over 40kg. He was poorly bred and poorly socialised and has been mentally screwed up by his bad start. He had multiple homes in his short life before coming to us. He did not go through a proper rescue centre and if he had a proper behavioural assessment, I strongly suspect he would have been put down. He would not have been rehomable - not because he's excessively aggressive, but few rescues will home dogs with even the slightest aggression.

His aggression is fear based. He's scared of strangers and other dogs. If properly introduced to a person or another dog, he's fine. In fact, he's a total baby and as soon as you have his trust, he'll love you forever. We spent so much time and money over the years on behaviourists, trainers and socialisation classes. He improved a lot, but he will always be difficult. We always walk him on lead and usually muzzled (as a precaution, he's never actually bitten anyone, the muzzle in more in case of other dogs) and actively avoid other dogs on walks. Walking him is stressful, but we mostly get out and back without incident. We do not bother introducing him to any people he does not need to know, instead we usually shut him away when we have visitors. However if we have overnight guests, he can be successfully introduced with a bit of time and lots of sausage!

Ok, so here's the main issue. When I got him seven years ago, I was not remotely thinking about children and had also expected an 8 month old puppy to turn into a normal dog with enough effort. I underestimated how much genetics would play and that he would never be normal. I thought I could turn him around completely. I couldn't,

I am now pregnant with our first child, although it's early days. It's been a very hard time as I've had hypermesis gravardium and have been (and still am) very unwell. I haven't got out of bed in weeks, and DH is working full time, running the household and sorting out dog. We normally split the dog walking (as Neither of us enjoy doing it due to stress) but he's done it every single day without complaining, even though I know it makes him miserable. I feel awful about it.

Both my SILs and MIL have never had any time for our dog. They aren't animal people and can't forgive him for his issues. As such, we have never introduced him to them. I find them quick to judge him and they all clearly think we should simply get rid of him. Now I'm pregnant, they've already started asking us about what we're going to do. It's so upsetting that I've asked DH to tell them to lay off.

Thing is, DH and I have known for a while that we would need to make a decision eventually, and we've had circular discussions but there's no easy answer.

We've tried for this baby for over a year and it's very much wanted. It's going to be hard enough have a newborn, without the stress about whether or not our own pet will harm it. Also (a more minor issue), our dog can be demanding and pushy. When he wants a walk or food, he will pace and whine, and drive you crackers. This behaviour when I'm sleep deprived with a screaming newborn is likely to push me over the edge.

DH is likely to have to pick up the dog walking for the majority of the time, as I cannot safely walk my dog and a buggy as I need two hands if an off lead dog approaches us (I might be able to cope with a sling, but still doesn't feel safe to carry a newborn and potentially deal with a dog spat). Getting a dog walker is not really an option, as our dog needs 1:1 care from someone who can handle him. I got this dog before DH came along, he's had a very difficult dog thrust on him which he wouldn't have chosen. DH does so well with our dog, but I know he does it for me.

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings? Once the baby has settled and is bigger there's a chance they could be introduced carefully.

Or can they? As I said, my dog is only scared of the unknown and very good when he trusts. The home he came to before is had 3 children under 10 and he was fine with them, but that was years ago. He has never shown aggression to a child, but then again we've never let him very near to them. He's a darling with us, and I do think he has the potential to be fine with our child who will be familiar and constant to him.

But how the hell do we ever find that out? Can I really actually try introducing dog and baby, or is it too risky? I feel like it might be irresponsible to even try.

He's a big strong dog. He occasionally jumps on us if he gets excited. He's heavy and his claws are sharp. He has hurt us both without meaning to. He could easily knock a toddler over, even if being friendly.

Thing is, I love my dog. Nightmare he is, but he's my nightmare and I'm responsible for him. I never wanted to be that person to turf out their pet because a baby turned up. My worries are genuinely to do with safety and whether this situation is manageable.

Thing is, even if we decide we can't do it, he would be impossible to rehome. There are thousands of perfectly nice dogs who can't find homes. My dog will be 8 years old, with aggression issues and also expensive seasonal allergies. Literally, no one would want him. I've had professionals say to be "he's lucky he has you, because I wouldn't put up with him!". I don't want to rehome him, but even if I decide to, I really think we would struggle to find him a home. He'd hate being stuck in kennels long term as he'd be so stressed, and I fear a rescue centre would simply put him down.

If we can't keep him, and no one will take him, the only other option would be to have him put to sleep - which is unthinkable.

I feel totally stuck between a rock and a hard place. DH and I have had this conversation so many times and never come up with an answer, because there isn't one! I think deep down I know it would be difficult, if not impossible, to manage such a situation safely. But I can't bear the idea of turfing out an elderly troubled dog and where on Earth would he go?!

So please be gentle. I'm pregnant, hormonal and ill, and I love my dog very much. So please be honest, but I can't handle a flaming right now.

OP posts:
Brokenbutbreathing · 27/02/2017 21:14

I feel so much for your situation. And I have very, very personal experience of this.

The dog might be okay... but it might not. Let me promise you, however much you love the dog, it is not worth the risk.

I speak as a mother who will never forget holding her three year old DC while they were given a general anaesthetic in order to have microfacial surgery to repair dog bites to their face and chin.

The dog in question was our own, which we had bred and had from eight weeks old, a mid sized reliable breed, and which had never displayed any form of aggression to anything or anyone before.

If a calm, gentle, well trained and obedient dog can suddenly snap and do this, please imagine how much worse it could be with a large dog with real social and aggression issues already.

I can hear how much you love your dog and my heart breaks for you. There are very very few instances in this world where I would recommend getting rid of a dog, but this has to be one. It's far, far, far too high a risk. I wish you strength for the journey ahead and huge happiness with your new baby.

MidnightVelvetthe7th · 27/02/2017 21:12

Hi op, I've tried to skim the thread, it's very long. It's a shitty situation for all and I'm sorry it's happening to you.

I did have a couple of thoughts, apologies if they have already been mentioned. If you get through the baby, toddler and pre school age without incident then the dog will cause problems for your child socially once they get to school. Your child cannot have a birthday party at home as the dog will not be safe in a houseful of shrieking children. Some parents will turn down play dates and socialising with your child as they will not allow their children in your house. The dog is not compatible with your child's friendships.

Also and I'm sure this has been mentioned, the worst case scenario is that your dog kills your child. Then you have lost both of them rather than just your dog.

I wish there was another way but this dog is not safe with your baby or you in your most vulnerable state. It's all too easy to leave a stair gate open in a sleep deprived haze of exhaustion or to make one mistake, once is enough.

Littlepiglittlepig3letmeIN · 27/02/2017 21:08

Dogs can get jealous when a baby arrives so as hard as it sounds try to give him attention as well as the baby. Use treats as a reward, if he takes a step towards the baby, say good boy and give him a treat, if he sniffs the baby, say good boy and reward with a treat. This will enforce the fact that the baby is nothing to be scared about, and can actually be a positive thing with treat rewards. Please remember though that sometimes dogs can be unpredictable and if he did spontaneously go for your baby I would consider contacting a charity and if none would help I would contemplate PTS. I'm glad you gave him a home when others may not have given him a chance. If you need any help, feel free to send me a private message and I will do my best to help.

That word if? it's one if too much.
Once it's happened it's happened. Why take that chance?

Olympiathequeen · 27/02/2017 21:06

I would say that if you can't manage the dog and baby safely the kindest thing to do is to have the dog put to sleep. Please don't try to rehome him or put him in a rescue centre. As you say he won't be safe to rehome and his last weeks of life will be beyond miserable.

Cantthinkofabloodyusername · 27/02/2017 21:06

We had a similar situation with our German shepherd, he is wonderful and loving with us but can be difficult to introduce to new people. He can be good with other dogs if introduced very slowly but can also be a nightmare. My sister was convinced he was too dangerous to have around when we had a baby and was very angry that we were even considering keeping him. We did not know how he would react to a baby as he had never (as far as we know) met one. We decided to wait and see what happened when we bought the baby home. I assumed that my motherly instincts would tell me immediately if he would be ok or not, I was right. He ADORED our daughter from the second we came home from the hospital. Obviously we were very careful that she never fell on or pulled at him as you should be with any dog but he is totally in love with her. My daughter is now 4 and they are inseparable. He is such a pushy clumsy oaf but he is so careful with her. My sister who was so insistent that he was going to be dangerous around a baby is totally happy having him around her 2 children now as well! If I had come home and he had shown any sign of being unhappy about the baby I would not have risked it but luckily he made the decision very easy for us x

dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 21:06

What happens if you put in 100% effort and then the dog bites?

Zebraar · 27/02/2017 21:04

baggycheeks What's offensive is the idea of killing something because it's too much effort. There are plenty of us unable to leave our kids alone with baby due to behaviour/aggression. The idea that we should just end life because it's too much effort to manage challenging behaviour is offensive, and the ultimate assault

GladGran · 27/02/2017 21:03

I so sympathise. We have a rescue Border Collie - they are a highly strung breed and very difficult, so I would never recommend one but our first dog was a Border Collie (51 years ago and we became telepathic in her 16 years and I knew exactly what she wanted, whether it was to go out or a biscuit). She was fine with my DD when she came along. Our latest BC now 10, was a bit nippy with our first grandson, now 11, but quickly stopped and didn't actually bite or do any damage, just rounding him up. When second grandson came along, no problems and now 2 GS plays with dog and is dog's favourite person. 2 GS is marginally autistic so they understand one another!
None of this helps you. I was enlightened by your comment about your lovely dog being frightened of strangers and other dogs. I have now realised that this applies to my DDog. She barks madly at all strangers but once she knows a person, she is their best friend and vice versa. When we meet other dogs, if they show no aggression to her, we have no problem and walk calmly by. If they do lunge at her, it is all hands on the lead and hang on for dear life.

I think the only thing you can do is wait and see. Try to be as calm as possible around your lovely dog, as he/she (sorry, it's so long since the start of this post) will pick up on your tension. I do so hope it works out for you. If the worst comes to the worst, you have given your DDog a lovely life he/she would not otherwise have had. You will have nothing to reproach yourself for. It would be good to know in about a year's time how it has worked out (you'll be too busy until then to tell us). My very best, most heartfelt wishes to you.

dowhatnow · 27/02/2017 21:03

What happens if a second child is added to the mix. How do you watch two children and a dog?

BaggyCheeks · 27/02/2017 21:02

More effort. Why didn't the OP, having spent the thousands she's already spent on behaviourists, vets and training, just think of that.

You're either wilfully naive, or just plain daft.

VictoriaMcdade · 27/02/2017 21:01

I feel for you, OP , I really do. But there really is no choice. You cannot bring a baby into this situation.

As other posters have said, having a baby is a total game changer. Life will never be the same again. You cannot imagine the joy, love, and protectiveness you will feel towards your child. You can also not imaging the frustration, exhaustion, and terror that something will go wrong.

When you have a child it can feel like that your heart lives outside your body. You would die for your child, you would go through labour every week for your child, and if something happened to that child you would be broken. Totally and utterly broken.

I hate to be harsh, but I agree with the poster that says this is a child protection issue. You are bringing the most defenceless, most precious, most beloved of creatures into a space where you have an aggressive, unpredictable animal.

It is just madness to do it.

I think that you sound caring and lovely, but I would report you to social services in a heartbeat. I don't know if they would do anything. But I would hope to goodness that someone would act to remove a baby from the presence of a dangerous animal.

Good luck. And many many congratulations on your pregnancy. I suspect you will be a wonderful and thoughtful mother. But you need someone to shock you into getting rid of the dog.

AbernathysFringe · 27/02/2017 21:00

Hi OP. Very similar situation before I had my baby. Rescue xbreed. Fear based aggression. Became afraid of older children after getting him, does not like them. Got him at 18months. He's now 4 and I have a two year old. So. What we did was this:
Before having baby used a CD of baby crying at various volumes to desensitize dog. He used to bark if he even heard children playing on TV.
Divided the downstairs with a stairgate so dog kept in kitchen and conservatory. Allowed in living room in evening when baby in bed.
Did not 'introduce' baby in the sense of poking it in the dogs face. Just had the baby in arms while doing ordinary things, being sure not to have it on dog's level at any time. He could smell the smell in the air, hear the crying etc. Taking on walks is really good idea if you can manage it in a back sling when a bit older.
Babies change fast, so just when he was used to it lying still, it became something that crawled, then walked etc etc. Kept the same amount of distance and never ever left them alone. Also - very important - always allow the dog room to get away, never corner him with the baby, never go after him with the baby. Giving him his dish with baby in a sling is good.
Also, before having the baby, lessen the amount of fuss you give him. That way, when your attention is divided after the birth, he won't associate the drop off in fuss with the baby.
I'm a big advocate of exercising the heck out of your dog to make it happy. The fact you're restricted to lead walks is a pity. Is there anywhere you could go, very early in the morning or even by driving, where you could give him a really good off lead run? Even if once a week? It will make him less tense and generally happier. Don't lessen his walks after baby. A dog-walker 1-1 that you properly brief and slowly introduce (they can come with you at first) would honestly be not as impossible as you think.
My situation now is, dd (2) will carry his food bowl to where he eats under close supervision 3 x a day. She will pick up and throw his ball for him also with me right there. I let her stroke him through the stairgate for very brief periods, without stressing, making sure he can get away if he wants to. The rooms are still divided and although I'm happy for her to walk through 'his' area when I'm right there, it's not all the time or on her own. A month or two ago I was feeling very relaxed and happy with their relationship but then she rattled the stairgate violently and loudly in his face and he snarled out of fear. I immediately shut him out of the room for a good hour and took it as a warning not to get lax. Toddlers are unpredictable. Dogs are unpredictable. I know that as she gets older and understands what I tell her to do and why more, it will be easier to prevent those kinds of things happening. I also know that as she gets older he will see her differently yet again. It's a matter of being sensible, supervising and minimising any chance for conflict and being sensitive to the dog's mood by his bodylanguage.
So, it's possible. It's equally possible that you won't be able to cope or able to make his life happy enough to keep him from being stressed in his new situation. You don't have to put him down, that's the lazy, unempathetic person's option. There are charities, not least, Dogs Trust, who will work with you to rehome him with the right person, with full disclosure of his issues, who won't put him down, who will facilitate the occasional update for you. I hope that you will be able to keep him in his final years, a large dog, especially a rescue, where ages aren't always accurate, will probably only have three or four years left to him, sadly. Thank you on his behalf for everything you've done for him so far. x

Zebraar · 27/02/2017 20:58

He lunges unpredictably
You need two hands to cling onto his lead during walks
They have had to hire a field to let him off lead safely

More effort - that's all. Doesn't and hasn't bitten anyone

Keep away from baby like you should any dog

Logansnana · 27/02/2017 20:57

I've been in the same situation and made it work. Gentle slow introduction and baby gates. I just could not have my dog pts he nearly faced that before I got him out of a very bad situation. Good luck xXx

Alidoll · 27/02/2017 20:55

All those people saying wait till the baby is born, see how it goes etc.. surely it would be easier finding a new home for the dog NOW while there is time to plan than being forced either to put the dog to sleep or offload the dog somewhere inappropriate if it did display aggressive tendencies towards the child..or health visitor, or family member wanting to see new baby.

This isn't your standard dog at home but a dog with serious behavioural issues that had already displayed aggression and with no warning signs before attack (such as growling, hackles raised etc). Sorry, but I wouldn't take the risk. Starting making the calls now as that will give you and the dog a good chance of a happy future. As waiting and seeing has the potential for being a recipe for disaster.

BaggyCheeks · 27/02/2017 20:54

Zebraar WTF are you on about? A disabled sibling is hardly likely to kill another child! That is beyond offensive, and fucking ludicrous.

harrietm87 · 27/02/2017 20:51

A lot of the advice seems to be, be careful and if he does anything bad then reassess. But you might not get the chance to reassess - a big dog like that could kill a baby with one bite. Given the dog's temperament and history, the likelihood of this is higher than it would be in any other dog (and there's always a risk). I just don't understand how you could risk it.

teacups83 · 27/02/2017 20:48

Contact NEW HOPE RESCUE on fb- they are based in London. Please look at their fb page you will see you couldn't find a better place for help. They will travel to collect a dog as far as i know and they are amazing. Better than him being PTS for being an inconvenience as you rightly say. For what it's worth I had massive 'pet aversion' when pregnant and with a newborn. I struggle with the guilt now and it's been 4 yrs (I kept mine and we got through it but at times I really didn't want them around - I was like a different person the way I felt towards my animals). Maybe take some time and keep separate. Congrats & good luck.

BertrandRussell · 27/02/2017 20:48

I think I hate "animal lovers"

BertrandRussell · 27/02/2017 20:47

"The children poke and prod him but he could not be more gentle and patient with them."

Bloody hell, another one!

Zebraar · 27/02/2017 20:47

Killing the pet will be a 'kindness to the dog'?! WTH! If OP had a baby born with severe behavioural difficulties, aggression etc, no one would say kill it to protect your newborn!!

welshbutenglish · 27/02/2017 20:45

I am so sorry you are going through this. I feel for you absolutely.

You are stressed now, but please imagine how you are going to feel once the baby arrives. The reality is that it can be really, really hard after your first birth. Your hormones will be all over the place, you may be in some post birth pain/ discomfort, you'll be trying to get to grips with breastfeeding or handling all those bottles, loads of laundry, coping with the fact that your whole life has just changed (in a wonderful wonderful way, but still it is a HUGE lifestyle change).

I am NOT saying get rid of the dog to make your life easier. But I am saying you will have a lot to contend with even disregarding the dog for a moment. Add to this the stressful dog situation and the fact that you will be concerned about the safety of your baby and Im afraid there may be only one answer. New mums will worry about their childs safety even at the best of times, it is hardwired into us. Animals pick up on any tension/changes and you do not know how they will react.

For the safety of your baby and your familys overall well-being, I would seriously recommend trying to re-home or pts. Its heartbreaking, but you cannot risk a tragedy. Im sorry but they do happen Sad. For the record I love dogs, but a babys life comes first.

NataliaOsipova · 27/02/2017 20:43

Doesn't every story you read where a dog has maimed or killed a small child carry the line "but he was such a lovely dog and so good with the kids...."?

Sciencemum70 · 27/02/2017 20:43

We have an anxious dog that can occasionally be aggressive when afraid. We have just adopted two small children. We too had the conversation about rehoming etc as we knew that we could not take any risks but we contacted a dog trainer and did some very focused work on boundaries. We have a lot of baby gates and initially kept the dog and children completely separated until they had both acclimatised to each other. We can now have the dog and children in the same room but are always vigilant (we would be with any dog). The children poke and prod him but he could not be more gentle and patient with them. I understand that you cannot take any chances but would urge you to seek the professional advice of a dog trainer before discarding the dog for something that he may or may not do.

MrsHorsfall · 27/02/2017 20:41

Years ago, when I was a child, we had a dog. She was a SBT and also a rescue. We had her for years and years. My sister came along, no problem, my brother came along and all was well. But one day the cat had kittens and something flipped inside the dog. It found and killed every single one. Sadly she never came round. She was locked behind a safety gate going for anyone that came near. I was a child so for years believed she went to live on a farm.
I'm not saying to pts is the only option, I'm saying that NEVER leaving the baby and the dog alone is a big commitment.