Rock and a hard place - My dog and new baby

SIL felt the same about her dog(s). Dog(s) have been fine with the kids. Small anxious bad tempered terrier type, very neurotic and attached to adult, not good with other dogs. I think at this stage in pregnancy when you are ill and anxious it doesn't seem possible that it will work (SIL said she fixated on idea that dogs would eat the children) It worked out. Also they were outside a lot as a result of the essential dogwalking, and I'm sure that was good for everyone's mental health, including the kids. Dogwalker is definitely an option. Why not investigate a bit of dogwalking first before you make your final decision. Dogs smell that your baby is part of you, and adjust to it in some situations, accordingly.

Hi

We've had a rescue german shepherd that was as bad as you describe and currently have a big guarding/herding type dog that's not the best behaved (despite lots of training). I'd say you know the dog the best, do lots of training now before the baby comes and I've heard people suggest getting it ready by letting it see and smell the new things. Do not EVER leave dog and baby alone together and use a muzzle if you're worried. Don't take chances but I would give the dog a chance. It's likely to recognise it as an extension to the family.

We have only heard a small amount of information about the dog. Nobody has so much as seen a picture of the dog, yet some posters seem to be imagining a blood thirsty monster rather than the OPs pet and companion of many years. I bet the dog has his own unique personality, good traits and loving moments too. This isn't the no-brainer decision some people are making it out to be.

OP, perhaps you could ask for advice on a dog owners forum. There are many owners of fear aggressive dogs who will be able to help you.

Also, your dog may not even be interested in your baby. You could use positive reinforcement (sausages!) so that your dog associates your baby's presence with good things. You are working with fear aggression, so you need to make sure the dog is not feeling threatened by the baby and in time he will get used to it

You have given this dog a loving home for eight years, going to extraordinary [in all senses of that word] lengths to make him happy. But now you have to choose between his welfare and that of a child - and we all know that that is no choice at all. It will hurt like hell in the short term, but you should have him put down. I sense that you know that this is the right thing to do. All good wishes.

Good point GreyHare

But the most unlikely possibility I find about the plan is..

I've tried to consider whether it would be realistic to keep the dog separate from baby during the day? Then let the dog out with us in the evenings?

Especially in the first few months, there is no day or night - everything melds into one long round of nappies, feeding, burping, settling, grabbing a cup of tea an a sandwich before it all starts over again. New babies don't disappear upstairs at 7pm and reappear in the morning. They are a 24 hour job with relentless and unpredictable demands.
My first fed every 2/3 hours for the first month or so. The inbetween times were to grab a nap or a shower or some food or put on a wash. That improved, but none of my babies ever settled until last feed at around 11pm - and even then awake again at 5am for another feed.
So I think it's unrealistic that the evening can be factored in as dog-time.

You have all my sympathy OP however I do not see any other choice but euthanasia. Your dog is large breed so his natural life span is probably now quite short. There may be the added complication of dementia with old age which means more unpredictability and fear on his part if confused with consequent aggressive reaction. Do not think of it as "killing" him but protecting him from future harm. By passing him on to a rescue centre you will almost certainly be delegating the decision to someone else. Why not have the vet come to your home (presumably your dog knows and trusts the vet) to give him the injection and let him pass away in comfort in his own home? Life at any cost is not always the best decision for either our loved pets or family members. ( Not advocating doing away with random non consenting relatives, by the way)

The thing lots of people also seem to be missing is that it's not just the baby that will be at risk, not that I have had children so not sure how often they come but don't you have an influx of health visitors and the like in the first few months plus friends and relatives that come a calling to coo over baby, all these visits will put extra unnecessary and unneeded stress both on the dog and Lemondrops.

"Yes I would question why a dog like this was in the position to attack a baby"

In a case like this, the obvious answer is "because someone made a mistake". I certainly can't guarantee that I will never make a mistake. Can you? There are people on this thread asking for their children to be bitten by letting their children pull themselves up on a dog's tail- the op is not one of them.

Look up the rescue organisation I suggested before calling it cruel. They are not your average rescue centre. They work with cases like this.

Yes I would question why a dog like this was in the position to attack a baby. Sorry I didn't realise I was actually expected to give a full detailed description of my exact reaction to a made up event. Soz.

I've been offering a home from home doggie day care/boarding service - more because I love dogs than anything. Dogs are pretty smart and you've explained that his agression is more fear based than anything - and obvious only to other dogs and strangers. I had v.similar worries with a German Shepherd like this in the past. So my feeling is that you shouldn't leap to conclusions about how he'll react towards your baby. As far as the dog is concerned, he'll know you're pregnant and will probably be more than accepting of the baby, knowing he/she will be loved as a member of the family. Give him a chance - I think you're probably worrying unduly. My G.shepherd loved my children so much, she would 'herd' the other g.shepherd we had at the time, away from the toddlers (I had twins) Then if your dog displays any untoward behaviour, then act. But I think the others are right, it wouldn't be fair to rehome him again now. Best to put him down if that's what you have to do. But make it an absolute last resort. And well done for rehoming. Diane

Vermillion, you are absolutely right. Which is why the "no healthy dog put down" places can get away with it.

But some people don't care how bloody miserable a dog is- if it hasn't got a terminal physical illness then it must be kept alive. Against all reason.

My dog is a rescue. He's not aggressive, not high maintenance and had always been very relaxed around children. But he still struggled to adapt to DS and we have still had a couple of cross moments (nothing major, no injuries, but dog has told us very clearly that he's not comfortable with the situation).

We're getting by... but I wouldn't hesitate to have him or any dog put down if I thought DS was at risk. My dog is old (10 this year), arthritic and a spaniel - so stubborn, naughty and prone to deafness in the face of horseshit and dead things! I love him, but I know it would be awful for him to be rehomed again.

Op, I would fully and unhesitatingly support your decision to have your dog put down. He sounds like he's going to struggle far more than our dog has. Please ignore the 'life at any cost' brigade. They will never see sense. They'll also never step up to their principles and take a dog like yours on.

"My response would be why was the dog in the room with the baby?"

Fuck me, would it be?

How lucky you are never to have made even the slightest mistake.

And how unspeakably cruel you are to think that a life with strangers or locked in a cage away from all it knows and loves is the best outcome for this poor dog.

OK I have to go to work. ^^ interesting question. I hope OP finds the solution whatever it may be. Have a good day all.

Genuine question. Of course I agree that a healthy dog should
not have to be put down. But does this not include mental health?
If the dog is skittish, aggressive and unpredictable to the point where micro management becomes necessary to keep other dogs and humans safe - does this not indicate a mental health problem? And therefore the dog can't be described as healthy in all respects?

This thread has raised the question in my mind.

I have a soppy spaniel now but I've had many many dogs from different countries/environments over the yrs and all have been rescues with every issue you can imagine. But yes I get your point.

What other options are there that are guaranteed not to cause this already insecure, managed-to-within-an-inch-of-its-life dog significantly increased stress?

Anyway OP as I suggested before there is a guy called 'niall Lester' on Facebook from the new hope rescue. Please look him up and see if he can suggest anything. Rescuing dogs from being PTS is what he does and then he finds suitable rescue spaces for them.

Teacups I think lots of the problems with threads like this are that people give advice with no real experience of these types of dogs. A soppy little spaniel is a huge difference to a large dog with fear aggression and a guarding instinct. Especially one who's genetics you are fighting a loosing battle against.

People with friendly dogs can't seem to grasp how stressful it is to have a dog that needs separating from the family or who takes a huge deal of effort just to take for a walk every day. There are no fun days out, no little trips to the beach, no leaving the dog in the care of others that don't know it etc etc. It's a huge ask to expect someone to give up their lives In a way for a dog like this, especially an old one!

For what it's worth I have a fear aggressive dog and keeping him separate fromt the outside world is hard enough...never mind doing it in the house also. I've had mine from a puppy so feel responsible for his behaviour and I wouldn't dream of passing my problem to someone else. I would PTS him on the spot if I couldn't keep him.

Fear aggressive dogs need stability and consistency, neither of which can be achieved in a kennel environment or by someone who thinks cuddles and basic obedience will fix something like this.

As for the dog hasn't actually done anything it's probably due to him having a responsible owner and not because he wouldn't. Of course he hasn't bitten as he is on lead and muzzled, I dare say if she set him free there would be trouble.

x posts with yours Teacup not in response to it (evidently!)

To make it clear (in my mind at least) if you put the dog to sleep it is done on your terms. The event itself is calm, the dog enjoys a fun couple of days beforehand and everybody was expecting it. You choose the occasion, it's often possible to have it done at home and your final memories of the dog are of peace and regret.
When a dog attacks (be that a human, another dog or livestock) sufficiently badly that it warrants ending its life, then that dog is destroyed- in the case of an attack on a child, seized by the police and dealt with by them. The owners last memory of the dog is still one of sadness but also an overwhelming sense of being let down and betrayed and often a hatred of the dog for what it has done (however illogical that may be)
For context I have had many dogs PTS and one destroyed. The experiences were totally different and I wouldn't wish the latter on anybody as my memory of the dog is still tainted by those final hours.

I think the point is that this (large) dogs lunges without any warning signals (well dogs always give warning signals, but sometimes they are so infinitesimally and subtle to us humans that we can't or don't have time to recognise or process them). The question is, in those circumstances, are you going to risk having the baby in your arms in the presence of your dog to "try out" whether he is ok with children or not? I think not! And as previously discussed, the separation gate thing and toddler thing will be even harder tbh and utterly miserable for all concerned.

My response would be why was the dog in the room with the baby?
Many otherwise totally 'normal' socialised dogs struggle with the smell and sound of a baby and NO dog should ever be within lunging distance.

It's easy to go on MN suggesting PTS but in reality come on how is she going to do that to an animal she loves. It's unrealistic when there are other options. Surely?

Teacups im with you!

Bert no, im just telling it like it is!

Right, im leaving it there as its just becoming a battle of wills!

Best of luck OP and I really mean that, hope it all works out in the end

Having a stressed and fearful dog put down is not cruel.

Keeping the dog in conditions that would increase his stress and insecurity, such as separating him from the person he has come to trust - now that's cruel.